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EP235 I Have My Baby, But I’m Not Happy: A Conversation About Post Partum Depression with Suzy Yatim Aslam

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Innhold levert av Rosanne Austin. Alt podcastinnhold, inkludert episoder, grafikk og podcastbeskrivelser, lastes opp og leveres direkte av Rosanne Austin eller deres podcastplattformpartner. Hvis du tror at noen bruker det opphavsrettsbeskyttede verket ditt uten din tillatelse, kan du følge prosessen skissert her https://no.player.fm/legal.

We tell ourselves we’ll be so happy, sprinkled with butterflies and unicorns when our baby gets here, BUT there’s a reality that some women live with that is quite the opposite. Join me for a real, raw, and at times hilarious conversation with Suzanne Yatim Aslam, author of Post Pardon Me, as we discuss the too often whispered about subject of post-partum depression.

To learn more about Suzy check her out on Instagram, @suzyatimaslam, and you can purchase her book on Amazon.

Transcript:
Hey Gorgeous. If you want success on your fertility journey, you’ve got to have the mindset for it. It’s time to kick fear, negativity, doubt, shame, jealousy, and the whole clown car of low vibe fertility journey BS to the curb. I’m your host, Roseanne Austin, fertility mindset master, former prosecutor and recovering type A control freak perfectionist.

I use the power of mindset to get pregnant naturally and have my baby boy at 43, despite years of fertility treatment failure. I help women across the globe beat the odds on their fertility journey, just like I did. Get ready for a quick hit of confidence, joy, feminine badassery, and loads of hell yes for your fertility journey.

It’s time to get fearless baby, fearlessly fertile. Let’s do this. Welcome to the Fearlessly Fertile podcast episode 235. I have my baby, but I’m not happy. A conversation about postpartum depression with Suzy Yatim Aslam. Loves, I’m so excited to be here with you this week because we are rolling up our sleeves and taking a really good look at a subject That I don’t think it’s talked about enough, generally, and more importantly, on the fertility journey.

Because we kind of get into this place where we’re like, look, I just want to have my baby. I’ll worry about all that other shit later. But before we know it, that later becomes now. And Susie wrote this incredible book. It’s called Post Pardon Me. It’s readily accessible on Amazon and it’s funny. It’s Real, it’s raw, it’s at times dark, but like in a really smart and interesting way, really exploring this subject of women and dealing with a topic that can be so shrouded in shame and misunderstanding, misinformation.

All kinds of stuff like that, like intentionally making women feel wrong for having some of the thoughts and feelings that come up at a time when you’re supposed to be fucking happy, right? Like you got what you wanted, so shut the fuck up and don’t be sad another day, right? That’s this crazy Well, I have some ideas about where this comes from, but that’s kind of a topic for a different episode.

But we get ushered into this, or corralled is probably a better word, into this idea that, okay, I’ve been trying for so long that all my problems are gonna drop away. My life is gonna be perfect. There’s going to be unicorns farting gold and bags of money falling from the sky as soon as my baby gets here.

Now, of course, that’s a bit of an exaggeration simply for illustration. However, we can kind of get into some thinking that is almost as magical as that on this journey, right? And we can shame ourselves for feeling, I don’t know, maybe a little disappointed? Maybe a little different than what we expected?

And so I really think that this conversation with Susie is, is a powerful one. That needs to be had and I know that, you know, you may be like, you know, I’m going to skip this episode until my day comes and then I’ll listen to it. I’ll have 40 weeks to listen to it. Well, I don’t know about that. I think some of the points that Susie and I are raising and discussing in this conversation could actually really serve you on this journey as well.

And on top of being a really smart woman, accomplished mom, entrepreneur, and all this other stuff, Susie is like a former Miss Arab America. She’s smoking hot and like really cool. So, hey, I want you to remember, hey, it can look like you have your shit together on the outside, but there could be some suffering.

So here is my conversation with the amazing Susie Ateem Aslam. So I would love it if you would share with the ladies listening how you found yourself in a position to be writing a book post pardon me. I, I was shocked after becoming a mother because motherhood is hard and people say that, and yeah, it’s really hard, but if you’re experiencing postpartum depression and you don’t know that you’re experiencing postpartum depression, While you’re going through that experience, it is shell shock.

And I mean, shock. Like I was like, this is not happening. This is a dream. I’m dreaming, right? Like I could not wrap my head around my reality and I could not talk to people about this because everybody was like, people were really dismissive and they didn’t mean to be. They were just like, no, everything’s fine.

Thank God the baby’s healthy and you’re healthy, you know? And so they were trying so desperately to. See the positive that they disregarded how I felt. And so I was like, you guys, I’m not special. If I feel this way, other people must feel this way. And there’s nowhere to talk about it. So I wrote it down in this book in the form of journal entries.

So all the thoughts that I was having that I tried to say to other people, and I couldn’t say now you just get to read, you just get to be in my brain and you get to read the dark thoughts and the weird thoughts and the silly thoughts and the funny thoughts and the, you know, all the, all the stuff in so many moms that read it, they were like, Oh, you take out your name and put in mine.

And yeah, that’s exactly how I felt, which is the point. The point is, is it’s not that surprising when you actually start to talk about it, honestly. Right. Well, and I love that we’re having this conversation in this group of women, because I think that there is this well intentioned, but completely misguided notion that all of my problems are going away when this baby gets here, right?

When you’ve been trying to conceive for seven years, you finally get pregnant. Everybody expects that there’s going to be this. You know, Super Bowl parade door, you know, you’ve got unicorns farting gold dust everywhere and that all of the stuff that’s inside of you just kind of goes away. Yeah, I actually think it gets amplified.

Well. The thing that I remember when I came to you, when I met you and I heard your story and I heard what it is that you do, and I was so, I was so you were like, how did you say it? I loved how you said it. You were like, you know, I don’t remember what you said, but you were like, it’s like gold. Like I have this thing and I need, you know, I want women to know this thing.

And then my thought was like, oh, that’s amazing. Oh my God, what happens after and what happens when they start to experience postpartum depression or anxiety? Yeah. But like you said, been wanting this thing for seven years, 15 years, and then they get it and they’re still human and they’re still experiencing a potential human experience.

Well, now they’re going to feel guilty about those negative thoughts and those because they’re like, no, I can’t, I can’t think this way. I wanted this. I went out of my way. I paid thousands of dollars in IVF. Flushed it down the toilet to get this baby. Roseanne showed up. She was my little godmother gave me this freaking baby.

And now I don’t want to be around the baby. I am a terrible human being. What is wrong? Can I curse? Okay. I figured, but you know, you’re just like, what the fuck is wrong with me? And then, you know, it’s like, it’s mom guilt intensified. It’s guilt intensified because. You wanted this baby way more than I probably wanted my baby.

Actually, I, for a hundred percent fact, no, that’s true. I had my baby cause I was like, Ooh, you know, I’m 30. I should probably start to think about it. And like, I didn’t actually, I wasn’t like burning to have a baby. I wouldn’t have gone out of my way to have one. And I had one and I felt guilty afterwards because I didn’t like my child.

Not knowing I had depression. So how much more is it going to be for somebody in your client’s positions where they’re like, This miracle finally happened. Why do I feel so terrible? And I just want them to know that whether this happened when you were 23 or 45 and you worked really hard for it, you can still feel this way.

And that’s, that’s normal. You need help. You should ask for help, but it’s still something that it’s okay. And I just don’t want the added guilt that I know that they would feel. Yeah. And you know, I love that you’re saying that because I don’t necessarily know if I had. Depression after I had my son, but what I had was very confusing feelings.

It was interesting because I remember like nine days after he was born, we did this newborn photo shoot and it could have been a combination of exhaustion or many different things, but I was like, what is happening? I just want to get out of here, you know, and to your point. There was part of me that was fighting against that very, that truth saying, well, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Yeah. Here’s your newborn son. This was not a question about whether or not I loved him, of course, but there was something happening, which I think is an, an aspect of the postpartum situation, you know, and I remember thinking to myself, what the fuck is wrong with me? Yeah. Something’s not right with my ass.

Yeah. This is supposed to be the day that I had looked forward to doing the shoot, but everything in me was like, what is happening? Yeah. And correct me if I’m wrong, because I wasn’t in this situation. Did you, or some of the, your clients that you’ve talked to afterwards, were they like, I’m supposed to be, I expect it to be jubilant for the rest of my life.

Like I expected to live, you know, the unicorn thing that you said, like consistently. All the time for the rest of my life, you know, cause you finally got the thing. And so when you don’t have that, it’s like, Oh, I did something wrong. What did I, you know, I’m so fucked up. I’m such a bad person. I’m a monster.

I asked for this and now look at me. I’m so ungrateful. It’s all of that spiral, you know, and I love that we’re giving like this safe space here. To talk about the fact that truly two things can be true at the same time. You can deeply love your child and you can, part of you can be absolutely jubilant, but there can be another aspect of you.

That’s like, what is happening to me right now? Yeah. I talk about this in my book because I was very angry and I was like, people think that women are goddesses and the thought had occurred to me that they don’t actually think of us as goddesses. They think of us as more like the Virgin Mary or like really pious and like just beautiful all the time.

And like very, you know, like, I mean, people pray to the Virgin Mary, like that’s, it’s so lovely. No, if you think we’re goddesses, follow that logic, like really, truly. Look it up. Goddesses were fierce, and they were pissy, and they were emotional, and they were illogical, and they were happy, and they were sad, and they were jealous, like they were all the things.

So yeah, you’re absolutely right, we are goddesses. Absolutely. But that means we are all of those things and it gets intensified in motherhood because motherhood, the idea is that you are the Virgin Mary and you’re not your fucking goddess, which means that you get to have those dichotomies that you get to have those conflicting feelings.

And that’s okay. That’s the human experience. Is it not? Yeah. Yeah, it totally is. So, so why don’t you share a little bit about like, how was it that you began to give yourself some permission to explore this? Because You know, typically we would just push this away and say, you know what, I’m not even doing this like this is like craziness.

I’m just going to push through this. I’m just going to work through this and completely ignore what’s happening because I have a baby crying in the other room. You don’t have time to take care of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So my tale is a cautionary one. Because I did not know what I was doing. And to your point, I have a baby crying in the other room and he was a terrible sleeper.

He was probably feeding off of my energy. So I think there was a lot of back and forth, like I’m miserable. So then he got miserable and his misery made me, you know, it was just terrible. It was a terrible catch 22. So I’m sitting there spiraling, not knowing why. So I just, I want to explain this to mamas.

You can have. The baby blues, which is pretty normal. And it lasts like two weeks after the baby. And that’s all the things that you’re going to feel that you expect to feel like you’re going to be tired and your body’s going to ache and you’re going to cry for absolutely no reason. And the example I use is like, you put the wrong sock on the wrong foot.

And suddenly you’re like, everything’s terrible. You know, it makes no sense. And you might feel that for like two weeks. And then if you still feel that way, three weeks in four weeks and two months in four months, then there’s something going on. And we tend to just be like, oh, well, it’s just motherhood and it’s hard and I’m sleep deprived.

Okay, well, at that point, you really should start to kind of feel at least not that consistently, you know, like the constant crying and that doesn’t, that’s not normal. So you should be able to ask for help. So I didn’t know that. So I was all of those things for months and months and months. Did and didn’t know.

And I was just like, and so correlation is causation in my head. So I became a mother at the same time I became depressed. That means because I didn’t know I was depressed that being a mother sucks. There’s just terrible. I made a huge mistake. How would I know? I’d never been depressed before. And it happened the same time I had Sammy.

So therefore This was a miss. I just, I was like, Oh, I fucked up. This was, what was I thinking? And I actually, Rosanna actually like go to people at the store that, you know, I’d be holding the baby and I’d be in line and they’d be checking me out. And then they’d say something about the baby. And I was like, don’t do it unless your loins are burning.

Do not have a baby. Like I was going mental begging people to not do it. And my husband was like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you, you know, he, he, I lost it. So then when I found out I was looking at his beautiful wife, the miss Arab USA, losing her shit in the grocery store. Yeah. I think he was like, Oh, she hid this part of herself.

And now I know who she really is. Like the real Suze came out and I, he was probably like, I think I made a mistake. You know what I mean? But like, he didn’t know I was dealing with this either. He just thought like I, he was now exposed to a whole new side of me. It was not, it was not good. And then when I found out I was, I was experiencing postpartum depression, at first I blew it off.

Cause I was like, I don’t have mental health issues. So that’s kind of you to ask, but no, and then, so I blew it off. And then when I did find out, I just got really pissed. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like I, I, you expect me to deal with this on top of this, the baby? No, you know, I don’t have the energy.

And then when you are depressed, you don’t have the capacity. To be like, especially if you’re a new mom, you can’t be like, okay, um, here’s my list of things that I’m going to do that are coping mechanisms to make me feel better. Like, what can I, you know, you’re not thinking like that. So self care is not something that is readily on your mind, you know?

So that was, that was really, really hard. And so I suffered and struggled the entire time. So my book is like cautionary tale. It’s like, Hey, don’t do that. I love that. Well, you know, you also brought up a really interesting point. Many interesting points, but one that I want to go back to was about. Your energy, the energy that the two of you were feeding off, you were putting out energy and this beautiful baby is sensitive to that energy.

So there, it creates this thing. And I think that’s a part of this that we don’t think about very often and not like in a blaming way, like you brought this upon yourself, but just to be aware of it, that our energy is impacting. You know, the child is very interesting to me. I went to this place. There’s this place here.

I wish they had them everywhere. It’s called Modern Milk and it’s a place for mamas and babies. And you can, you can like take a yoga class and the baby just sits at the top of your mat and you know, you know, you do yoga or bar. It’s so lovely. And they have classes for, you know, for you to like learn how to sleep train and it was my favorite place.

It was, it saved my life, but it was so interesting because the sign when you walk in and says, happy mom, happy baby. And I remember thinking like, if I was happier. Would Sammy be happier? But like, what does that mean? Cause he, him existing has ruined my life. So how on earth am I supposed to be happier?

Like the fact, the reality is that he’s here and I, I regret that decision. And so, and these are, these are, these are my thoughts. And honestly, Rosanne, like I’m right now. Just to provide like future context right now, I’m actually going through, especially cause I’m doing all of this, like these podcast interviews and my second edition is coming out and my audio book drops, I hopefully tomorrow, if the audible thing works.

I don’t know if it drops tomorrow, but I am like grieving because I sit there and I, I, I talk about this so much and I get, I get, oh my God, I get really sad thinking of like the time that I had with Sammy that I, like, it should have been this beautiful experience and it wasn’t, and I had, and I understand like, yeah, you’re going to be tired and all that stuff, but like the negative thoughts that I had toward him, um, yeah.

That like, it, it like shocks me that I felt that way and I thought that way. And now I’m like, Oh my God, I like, I lost that time and it makes me so sad. And like, we didn’t get to connect the way I wanted to because of that energy that, you know, I was feeding him and he was feeding back to me. And it makes me really, really sad.

And you’re so kind and brave, generous, all of these things to share that reality, that human. Aspect of it, because you could come on here and be like, Oh, you know, I got over it. But I think the reality is, is we get so many bumps and bruises in this life that the more that we can share that reality from an empowered place, from a place of service in the way that you are, it just opens up the door for normalizing this conversation and giving women permission to say.

This is me too. And here’s what I did about it. Yeah. Yeah. I think we’ve gotten better at that than probably, you know, eight years ago when I was experiencing this about being like, Oh, I think I’m having a hard time. But I think the problem is, is once you’ve acknowledged it, it might be a little bit easier, but acknowledging it and sort of like accepting like, Oh, wait, I’m something’s wrong that I think that’s the hard part.

It’s like step negative one of dealing with this is sort of. Noticing being aware of your, of your, like, of your feelings inside of your body and how your relationships are changing. And yeah, so that to me, I think that’s the hard part is actually being like, Oh, I actually don’t think I’m okay. I actually think this is so much bigger than just being a tired mama or overwhelmed mama.

What was it for you though? Like, what was your tip off? Like, aside from having that outburst in the grocery store, like that was a lot, by the way, that was not one outburst. Oh, okay. So like, so what was it for you that kind of said, all right, yeah, you know what? I’m not. All right. Okay. So I used to be an actor and before we had kids and me and my husband, that’s where we met.

We met at an acting studio. And so we would make movies, indie films, and it was so much fun. And like, that was our entire courtship was on the set of films. And, and, you know, we’d watch the sun come up over the mountains while we were shooting outside freezing, you know, like all these like beautiful, cool things.

And I, you know, I made some cool movies and some of them were like action. And like, I just, I was like, Angelina Jolie was so bad ass. And I traveled a lot and I was an activist and I had like been in a war zone and I had gotten shot at. And I was like, I was like big, you know, I was big. I did the Miss Arab USA thing for a year.

Like I did big stuff. And then I didn’t, then I was stuck in a condo with my little baby. And that was really hard because the drastic difference. It was just so noticeable. It was like, God, I went from being this like really big person who was so busy doing all these like really cool and creative and different things to just being locked up with the child, the size of a Boston Terrier.

And I’m like, this sucks. This like really, really sucks. And I couldn’t wrap my head around like, Oh, this is temporary or, Oh, Hey, this is the most important thing you’ll ever do. And it’s actually really beautiful. Like if somebody told me that I’d be like, fuck off, you know, like I, it’s, you can’t take that in.

You cannot do it. So one day, Kasa, my husband. I had like one of my weird meltdowns and I wasn’t okay. And I had severe anxiety and he was like, he kind of got mad. And he was like, do you want to leave? And I’m like, what are you talking about? Leave, leave where? And he’s like, Sammy ruined your life. If you can go in quotes, do you, um, just leave, like take money, go to LA, go do your movies, go do whatever it is that you think Sammy has ruined for you and go and come back when you like, when he’s more manageable.

And I got this like clear idea of the way I was. How I was being perceived like for costume to think that I actually wanted to leave. I was like, what are you seeing that because you can’t see yourself in those situations. So I was like, what, what is he seeing that he actually thinks that that was a viable option for me.

I don’t, I don’t want to leave. And that was really, really shocking. And that’s when I sort of broke down and I was like, I’m not, I’m not at all. Okay. And I sort of gave myself permission to be honest with him because as a mom and as the primary caretaker, I was just supposed to do it right. And because I wasn’t doing it right.

And I was floundering. The last thing I wanted to do was like, tell him I was floundering. So I just walked around acting like I was, you know, pretending everything’s fine. This is just really hard. And not really letting himself see the imperfections or sorry, letting him see my imperfections. So being like really, really open with him was really, really hard, but we were losing each other.

So it was, it was kind of, it was kind of necessary. And that’s when he was like, Oh, so he’s, you know, he’s an entrepreneur and he runs his own company and he runs multiple companies and I was so lonely and I was so alone. And so after that, he started coming home at the same time every day and we started this little schedule where it’s funny because later it actually was kind of dooming for our relationship.

But in the meantime, the schedule was. You know, I’d get like all of us get like, how did we do it? Like I get half of Saturday, Saturday morning, and then he’d get Saturday afternoon and we’d spend Sunday as a family. Like we kind of made this like little schedule for ourselves because I need that I, and I needed for me to like be alone time, cause I’m an introvert.

So I needed to like go take my book and sit at a coffee shop, you know, or like run, even running errands, like made me happy as long as I was by myself. And I didn’t talk to people, so I did that, but we sort of kind of came up with the system. And if he knew, if he knew I wasn’t okay, because I would tell him like, I’m not okay.

He would just like, take the baby. And he would let me kind of go through, like, if I was having anxiety and I, you know, whatever it was, he would like, give me the space to feel that. And we understood that it was a mental health issue. And it wasn’t me being like a little.

Cause that’s how I felt for a lot of reasons. Cause I should, I should be good at this cause I’m a fucking mom. And it’s in my, it’s in my DNA, right? I should just naturally know how to do this. Rosanna, I didn’t know how to push. Like she had to tell me when to push. And I remember thinking like, but you hear these crazy stories about how like women give birth in a car because they just felt the need to push and they couldn’t hold it in.

And I don’t know how, like, so right into it, I was like, well, I suck. I can’t, I can’t, can’t do anything. Like even my own biology was failing me. That was so, it was just really maddening, you know, from, from day one. Yeah, but you know what, I, it’s such a powerful thing to be able to share at that level. I mean, cause I had a similar, I remember after I had my son Asher and he’ll be six, I remember thinking, is somebody going to tell me when I’m supposed to breastfeed him?

Like I didn’t know either, like, like I was like at the time, I mean, I had gone to law school. So like, I mean. Some of this stuff. I mean, I think we take it for granted. I think there’s a narrative out there that’s, that’s really insidious to trap women into this. Well, you’re so, you know, it’s natural and you do this and you do that.

And at the same time, we’re also told to go out into the workplace and slay. So it’s like, we’re so disconnected from our feminine. Right. Yet we’re expected to know this right and pick one, bro. You can’t have it all. Yeah. And it, you know, and I think that it’s such an interesting thing to be in a place where we can own our shortcomings without making them.

You know, this horrible thing, like you’re a failure as a human being, because you have these shortcomings, right? And it’s like, well, wait a minute. Like I spent most of my adult life in my masculine energy first as a prosecutor, then as an entrepreneur building, you know, my own thing that it’s like, I’m just supposed to know this out in the wild.

Like, I don’t know. Right. I don’t know. So, I mean, it sounds stupid, but I think that the more. We normalize that and allow women to, to digest the idea that, Hey, one, it’s okay to not be okay, right? It’s okay to ask for help because most of us, I mean, I think there’s going to be another wave of a more evolved version of feminism that allows us to own it all.

Not just be in the masculine, but embrace both the masculine and the feminine within us. That’s my, that’s certainly my prayer. And that certainly looks like it may be headed in that direction because I think that the next step for women is really to be able to say, I am all of this. I am the mess. I am also the neatness.

I am the complexity and I am the simplicity, right? Embracing all of that. Yeah. Yeah. There’s this line in Downton Abbey that I quote a lot where somebody, the Dowager, she goes, I’m a woman. I can be as contrary as I like. And I’m like, exactly. Exactly. It’s just like who it’s what we’re known for. Like just, it’s just who we are, but it’s actually what I think is so beautiful about femininity is because, and there’s, and there’s men who have that type of feminine energy.

So I’m just talking about like the femininity aspect, but the, the reason I think it’s so cool is because it allows you to see things from different vantage points. It’s not, I think women particularly are really good at not seeing it as so black and white. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And I think that’s also why like this topic is so powerful because I think we, as women, as we return to the empowered feminine, because like, it’s not empowered to be cut off from your femininity completely correct.

It’s kind of this, it’s this pendulum swing, which is, I think, bringing us back to the center where we can see both sides of this to be able to say, as you’re saying, I’m not okay. It’s okay for me to ask for help. It’s okay for me to also ask my partner to, to be part of this. Cause that’s the other thing.

I mean, I love that you were able to ask Kazem, you know, to be there for you and that the two of you created this schedule in that sense. I mean, it sounds like, you know, the wheels fell off of that schedule probably at some point. Yeah. You at least had a partner that was there to listen. Well, the thing is, is they all like, so I’ll go on like dad podcasts and I’ll talk to dads and they’re like, tell me what to do.

Tell me, you know, because they like, they really want to do the thing. And so here’s what they do. Here’s what they do. They go out and they work. Because that’s the thing that they know how to do. And they’re like, I don’t know what to do. I’m not the mom. I don’t have boobs. So I’m going to go and I’m going to go out and I’m going to do the thing.

I know how to do better than I’ve ever done it because that’s the masculine energy and they’re going to go out and they’re going to kill the antelope and bring it back to us, you know? And they do that so well. And it almost like they do it like obsessively because now it’s not like you, you can go fend for yourself, you know, but now you’ve got this baby to take care of.

And so they’re going to go and they’re going to do to the best of their ability. And. That’s all they know that they can do. And you’re not telling them that there’s anything else that they need to do, then they’re just going to go and do that. And that’s it. You know, I love that you’re saying that because I think in a very empowered way.

It’s an invitation for us to take responsibility for our lives. Self advocate. Yeah. It’s like, Hey, yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s like these, you know, when you have somebody in your life that is into you enough to have this baby with you, they want to be there. Right. And it’s like, tell them just. Tell them what it is that you need, even if it may not come out perfectly the first time, tell them, yeah, you set everybody up for a win, win.

And most importantly, you feel seen and you feel heard because I am sure when you were in the depths of despair and in your pain. There’s probably nothing you wanted more than to be heard. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But I wanted you to read my mind. I needed you to just, just know by my face and my sigh and my, like, tears.

But he didn’t, he didn’t know. So he just went out and he just did the best that he knew how to do, which was to make money so we could be safe and happy. And I come from a, um, my parents are immigrants. So I have this, like, I have this mentality of how it could be really bad and I’m so blessed and I’m so lucky and I think this falls into like something that your audience can understand because I could have had it so much worse.

I could have been, it could have grown up where my parents grew up and it, you know, would have been so hard and, and so, but no, I grew up here and I’m safe and I’m happy and I have everything and I, my water isn’t being cut off and I don’t live under oppression and, and so shut the fuck up. And just be fucking happy, or at least don’t complain and whine about it, you know, and so when I would have those dark thoughts in my head, they sounded like I was whining and I didn’t, I, that, that was like, I was like almost disgusted with myself, you know, because I, cause I always grew up with so much gratitude about the life that we have.

And then my, my life only got better when I got married and I lived in Scottsdale. I was like, I live in a resort town. I’m looking at palm trees right now. You know, I’ve been to Scottsdale. I love it. Amazing. It’s amazing. And so I’m, you know, I’m so blessed to sit here and be like, I’m sad. You know, it really was like, It was very confusing to my brain because I was like, well, what more do you want?

You know, like I didn’t understand. I’m still learning this really hardcore that your emotional needs are so freaking important to your entire wellbeing, like even your physical wellbeing. And this is something that I’m only recently like really allowing myself to feel and, you know, sitting in my feelings and being like, well, I’m feeling this and I don’t really know why.

And I don’t have a. Analytical logical reason for it, but it’s there and it means something. And so I’m just going to let myself feel it. And yes, there are people in worse situations than I I’m in, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t matter. And my feelings don’t matter. And so I’m, and I’m trying really hard to keep reminding myself of it does not come easy.

This is something that I, on a consistent basis, have to remind myself. So, you know, when we’re looking at your, at your audience and they’re like, I’m so blessed and I have everything and look, and I feel so guilty, you know, that that’s something that I just, I just want to kind of put out there. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it’s like, I see this all the time. Like, you know, women who have accomplished multiple, like incredible things in their lives, but this is the one thing they can’t get this baby that they want all the things. And then they back off the dream and say, well, I should just be happy because I have a partner.

I have a career I have. Money. I have this. Well, then I should just shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a second. Yeah. Truth. Truth is the shit that we can’t run away from. Oh, I love that line. Oh, I want to write that down. Yeah. I mean, well, you can’t outrun it. No. You can’t out wealth it. You can’t out party it.

You can’t read it. That truth is there. So that that’s the same thing. I, you know, I tell women all the time, like if this desire in your heart to be a mom is there, it’s because it’s meant for you. So don’t give up on it. Right. Don’t give up on that. And just like in your situation, slightly different was.

You had a need and you felt it and that’s truth and you weren’t able to run away from it. There was this invitation, you know, Suzanne come in, like you need to get to this next level of consciousness for you so that you could be better. Cause like, I know that you’re super hard on yourself, right? Like you’re super hard on yourself.

But think about how much more you can give your sons because you did this work. Yeah. Think about how much more open as a parent. You are, because you own the feeling, you don’t have to have, you know, a logical explanation, which is, this is, you know, so hard. Yeah. Well, from the neck up is where fear lives.

This is where the bullshit lives is from the neck up. I really think from the neck down is where truth lives, right? Oh, I’m writing this down too. Oh my God. You know, cause, cause think about it. Like, yes, you went through crazy shit. Yes. There was a period of time you weren’t. You know, you didn’t have access to the person that you truly wanted to be, but think about how much better you are because of that.

Yeah. You, I hate this, that this is true, but you grow and learn about yourself when things are hard. You know, like if things are all sunshine and daisies, you’re just not going to notice that, Hey, maybe I should be working on this. So I hate that because I want to be able to grow when things are good. And I don’t, it’s not so hard.

It’s a different kind of growth, right? It’s a growth that. Doesn’t have an exclamation point after it. It’s like, Oh my God. Yeah. It’s kind of more of this. Oh, I’m gently raising my consciousness as opposed to, you know, what am I going to do? How am I going to get through the day? But, you know, so what is it that you, like, if you were going to, so as women go out and totally blow up Amazon to get your book, you know, what are some of the things, like, Maybe just a couple things that you would encourage women to keep in mind if they find themselves in this place.

God, you’re allowed to not be okay. And I, you know, we said that it’s okay to not be okay, but I really don’t think that we take that in and you’re allowed to say something’s wrong. I’m not okay. And sometimes that requires like. You even know, like, how would you know that you’re not okay? So this is why I want to educate women about like the difference between baby blues and postpartum depression.

If you’re still experiencing those things a few weeks in a couple of months in, you know, stop and think maybe, maybe I’m not okay. And, and the hard part is it’s like, if you’re having a good day, you might be like, oh, no, everything’s fine, you know? But so you have to kind of look at the overall picture here of how are, how are you feeling overall?

How much of yourself is still is still there. And so that’s one thing I would say. The other thing that I would say is God bless our partners, but you know, sometimes you want to be like, Hey, I’m going to send you to your sisters in six months. You’re welcome. You know, to, to, to take a break. And I’m like, that’s nice.

What do I do for the next six months? Like, you know, you know, so I need little daily wins today. I went on my bike. And I looked for all these purple trees that grow just right now for about six weeks in, in Phoenix. And that’s the only time we get them. And I know that they make me really happy and I’m, I’m having a really crazy, crazy day.

So I took about 15, 20 minutes and I went on my bike and I went around and I looked at trees. And that made me happier than I, anything I could think of. And I, like, I try to give myself those little daily wins as it, as it were that recharge me in ways that I need. So as an introvert, like I said, you know, I’m, I’d rather just go out on a bike than like, go have lunch with a friend.

That’s what works for me. So it’s so funny. Cause a lot of it is like really trying to understand yourself and really being like, really being aware of the things that you need. And that’s a big ask. It’s a big ask, but the bigger ask. That I would say is actually asking for help is a, is a bigger ask.

Because the thing is, is like, you could have depression all day and people could know about it all day. But until you actually say like, okay, like the first step is, is, is on you. And I feel like that’s the big ask. Because you’re tired and you’re depressed and you’re anxious and you’re guilty and you’re all these things.

And I’m still asking of you, you have to be the one to stand up and ask for help. And that’s, that’s really, really hard. Yeah. I think those are, are beautiful sentiments. And I think that the more women get into, and I love that we’re catching women at this point, you know, before their baby comes. Yeah. But like, I mean, cause you try to hammer this to women all the time.

Like Ask for some fucking help, you know, like, but it makes perfect sense because you look at the most successful people in the world. They didn’t get there on their own. Oh, never drive. Yes. There’s natural talent. There’s drive. But there’s always somebody in the background, helping them hone their talent, helping them see the blind spots, you know, helping propel them forward.

No man is an Island. But somehow we get this idea that if you ask for help, you’re weak or that if you have somebody coaching you or, you know, is a trusted advisor, trusted counsel, that’s going to help, you know, help you get out of that rut that you’re somehow weak. It’s nonsense. It’s like the biggest scam there is.

It’s a scam. It’s a scam. It’s a total scam. You know, just like the scam of the overnight success, we all know that’s not true, right? You know, it takes time and it takes consistency and it takes the discipline, you know, love the overnight success, but it’s like, that’s not actually what this whole process.

Yeah. So two things I’ll say, first of all, the village that they talk about, like it takes a village to raise a child. I’m sure the children love the village, but they need connections with their mom and dad more than anybody else. Like that’s, those healthy attachments are more important than, you know, your attachment with your neighbor.

So for me, I was like, Oh, the village is for the mom. That’s for her. It’s not for the baby. It takes a village to raise a child because you need some fucking help. You know, like that, that’s why like they should finish that proverb. So maybe they do. I don’t know. Maybe at least not in the book I got. I didn’t hear that.

Yeah. They had to edit it. Cause it was, there was profanity at the end. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing I’ll say is the other day I was at like a big extended family dinner and it was like friends of family and we were all hanging out in this, there was this mom that had a four month old. And I know so much now.

And so I, I sat down next to her and I was like, how are you? And she’s like, I’m good. I’m like, no. And I looked right at her and I’m like, really, how are you? And then she’s like, I mean, you know, like I’m okay. And she started kind of going into it. She’s like, it was, you know, it was weird at first. I think I’m getting a handle on things and it’s been really hard cause my partner’s struggling and, you know, and so she’s going on all these things and then, and I’m looking at the baby and, you know, I’m trying to like distract the baby while she’s talking to me and then she stops and she goes.

You know, I just realized you’re the first person to actually ask me that, but like really ask me. And I was really sad for her because nobody really asks, nobody really asks. And she was like, and you know, what’s so weird. And guys, I mean, like, please listen to this. She’s like, it’s so weird because nobody, not only do people not ask, but like, when they see me with the baby, they don’t even look at me.

Like they go, you know, it’s like relatives, like they go straight for him and they grab the baby. And they like, well, like, she’s not like, she’s a piece of furniture. And she’s like, it was so, it was so weird. And then people have this like weird ownership over your baby. Cause they’ll be like, how’s my nephew.

And we do that. It’s like, I do that too. I love my nieces. And I’m like, how’s my little niece? You know? But it made her feel like it wasn’t her baby. It was his nephew and that coupled with like not even looking at her in the eye and asking her how she’s doing and just taking the baby out of her hands.

And, you know, and so it’s like, you can go and have your time with your nephew. It just made her feel so invisible. And so how are you supposed to talk to those people and tell those people that you’re not okay? You know, it’s really hard. Yeah. And I think this goes back to your point. We have to take care of ourselves.

The contact and the health and the, the equanimity in the family, it’s here, it’s mom, dad, baby, like you guys need to sort, I mean, that needs to be solid. Yeah. And all of those people need to be taken care of first. Everyone else can fucking wait, you know? Yeah. But to keep that healthy and sane and loving, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but like at least have the conversation.

I mean, this is so powerful. So thank you, woman. I am so freaking delighted and we’re going to put a link to this amazing book in the show notes. We’re going to put it in, you know, everywhere out there in social, but where can people follow you and, and hear more of your message? Cause the expectation that I have in my heart.

Is that every one of my ladies is going to get there is going to have their day and they’re going to want to hear from you through it. So, well, thank you. I was so glad when we met in Dallas, I was like, we need to talk. This is important. You’re like step one and I’m step two. You know, I’m like, find our powers.

This would be amazing. So I am a millennial. So I’m on Instagram. Please do not find me on. Tick tock or snap. I am not there. I do not live there. So Susie team. Awesome. I know you’ll have that in the, in the show notes as well. And my audible comes out this month. So you’ll be able to listen. Cause I know I’ve had a lot of mamas that are like, I don’t read, when am I supposed to read your book?

So, you know, now you could fold laundry and look around for your missing iced coffee while you. Yeah. Listen to my book and the second edition is out. So it’s updated with a little bit more nuggets of wisdom that I’ve collected throughout this year while talking to all these amazing women and all being on all these podcasts.

And yeah, it’s so lovely talking to you. Yeah. Well, I’m so glad that we were able to have this conversation, woman, and I’m so happy for you. So happy that you’re doing the work. All this amazing information out really creating a safe space to have this conversation. That’s all I want. I just want to hold your hand and I want to make you laugh a little, you know, in the book, the book, it’s a dark comedy.

You’re going to chuckle a little bit and you’re going to see my really weird, dark, dry English humor. Um, I just want to hold your hand and make you feel like you’re not alone. Yeah. Well, I love that woman. I love you. I am so happy for, for what you’re doing in the world. So thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you, Roseanne. Talk to you soon. Loves, wasn’t that a fascinating conversation with Susie? I am so grateful that we had that opportunity. And I think it’s really cool to be able to have this conversation in a really open way. And you know what? Hey! Make it okay to not be okay at times, right? But you also have to be smart and get help and learn how to think and feel through that process.

And I’m so grateful for all of the wisdom that Suzy shared with all of us. So do check out her book on Amazon, Postpardon Me. It’s available on Audible as well. So it’s super cool. Now, at the time that you’ll be listening to this episode, we are winding down from summer. Like, autumn, it is rolling in real quick.

And I really want you to be thinking about how you want to use the rest of this year. And if you really want to get to the end of the year and say, you know what? I absolutely positively, 100 percent certain that I did not squander any time. I really dug in. I did the work. I covered my bases, mind and body, and I’m super fucking excited about what I’m going to create in 2024.

Then get your application in mama for my fearlessly fertile method program. This is my signature eight week program. This program is for women who intend to get pregnant in the next 12 months and say hell yes to covering their bases, mind and body. So to look back on this time in your life with regret.

I work with women committed to success and their results speak for themselves. So go to my website www.FromMaybeToBaby.com and apply for an interview there. My methodology is help women around the world make their mom dreams come true. As I said, their results speak for themselves. And if you don’t have a mindset for success on this journey, baby, you got to keep it all in your strategy.

Let’s fix that shit and set you up for success. Till next time, change your mindset, change your results. Love this episode of the Fearlessly Fertile podcast? Subscribe now and leave an awesome review. Remember, the desire in your heart to be a mom is there because it was meant for you. When it comes to your dreams, keep saying hell yes.

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We tell ourselves we’ll be so happy, sprinkled with butterflies and unicorns when our baby gets here, BUT there’s a reality that some women live with that is quite the opposite. Join me for a real, raw, and at times hilarious conversation with Suzanne Yatim Aslam, author of Post Pardon Me, as we discuss the too often whispered about subject of post-partum depression.

To learn more about Suzy check her out on Instagram, @suzyatimaslam, and you can purchase her book on Amazon.

Transcript:
Hey Gorgeous. If you want success on your fertility journey, you’ve got to have the mindset for it. It’s time to kick fear, negativity, doubt, shame, jealousy, and the whole clown car of low vibe fertility journey BS to the curb. I’m your host, Roseanne Austin, fertility mindset master, former prosecutor and recovering type A control freak perfectionist.

I use the power of mindset to get pregnant naturally and have my baby boy at 43, despite years of fertility treatment failure. I help women across the globe beat the odds on their fertility journey, just like I did. Get ready for a quick hit of confidence, joy, feminine badassery, and loads of hell yes for your fertility journey.

It’s time to get fearless baby, fearlessly fertile. Let’s do this. Welcome to the Fearlessly Fertile podcast episode 235. I have my baby, but I’m not happy. A conversation about postpartum depression with Suzy Yatim Aslam. Loves, I’m so excited to be here with you this week because we are rolling up our sleeves and taking a really good look at a subject That I don’t think it’s talked about enough, generally, and more importantly, on the fertility journey.

Because we kind of get into this place where we’re like, look, I just want to have my baby. I’ll worry about all that other shit later. But before we know it, that later becomes now. And Susie wrote this incredible book. It’s called Post Pardon Me. It’s readily accessible on Amazon and it’s funny. It’s Real, it’s raw, it’s at times dark, but like in a really smart and interesting way, really exploring this subject of women and dealing with a topic that can be so shrouded in shame and misunderstanding, misinformation.

All kinds of stuff like that, like intentionally making women feel wrong for having some of the thoughts and feelings that come up at a time when you’re supposed to be fucking happy, right? Like you got what you wanted, so shut the fuck up and don’t be sad another day, right? That’s this crazy Well, I have some ideas about where this comes from, but that’s kind of a topic for a different episode.

But we get ushered into this, or corralled is probably a better word, into this idea that, okay, I’ve been trying for so long that all my problems are gonna drop away. My life is gonna be perfect. There’s going to be unicorns farting gold and bags of money falling from the sky as soon as my baby gets here.

Now, of course, that’s a bit of an exaggeration simply for illustration. However, we can kind of get into some thinking that is almost as magical as that on this journey, right? And we can shame ourselves for feeling, I don’t know, maybe a little disappointed? Maybe a little different than what we expected?

And so I really think that this conversation with Susie is, is a powerful one. That needs to be had and I know that, you know, you may be like, you know, I’m going to skip this episode until my day comes and then I’ll listen to it. I’ll have 40 weeks to listen to it. Well, I don’t know about that. I think some of the points that Susie and I are raising and discussing in this conversation could actually really serve you on this journey as well.

And on top of being a really smart woman, accomplished mom, entrepreneur, and all this other stuff, Susie is like a former Miss Arab America. She’s smoking hot and like really cool. So, hey, I want you to remember, hey, it can look like you have your shit together on the outside, but there could be some suffering.

So here is my conversation with the amazing Susie Ateem Aslam. So I would love it if you would share with the ladies listening how you found yourself in a position to be writing a book post pardon me. I, I was shocked after becoming a mother because motherhood is hard and people say that, and yeah, it’s really hard, but if you’re experiencing postpartum depression and you don’t know that you’re experiencing postpartum depression, While you’re going through that experience, it is shell shock.

And I mean, shock. Like I was like, this is not happening. This is a dream. I’m dreaming, right? Like I could not wrap my head around my reality and I could not talk to people about this because everybody was like, people were really dismissive and they didn’t mean to be. They were just like, no, everything’s fine.

Thank God the baby’s healthy and you’re healthy, you know? And so they were trying so desperately to. See the positive that they disregarded how I felt. And so I was like, you guys, I’m not special. If I feel this way, other people must feel this way. And there’s nowhere to talk about it. So I wrote it down in this book in the form of journal entries.

So all the thoughts that I was having that I tried to say to other people, and I couldn’t say now you just get to read, you just get to be in my brain and you get to read the dark thoughts and the weird thoughts and the silly thoughts and the funny thoughts and the, you know, all the, all the stuff in so many moms that read it, they were like, Oh, you take out your name and put in mine.

And yeah, that’s exactly how I felt, which is the point. The point is, is it’s not that surprising when you actually start to talk about it, honestly. Right. Well, and I love that we’re having this conversation in this group of women, because I think that there is this well intentioned, but completely misguided notion that all of my problems are going away when this baby gets here, right?

When you’ve been trying to conceive for seven years, you finally get pregnant. Everybody expects that there’s going to be this. You know, Super Bowl parade door, you know, you’ve got unicorns farting gold dust everywhere and that all of the stuff that’s inside of you just kind of goes away. Yeah, I actually think it gets amplified.

Well. The thing that I remember when I came to you, when I met you and I heard your story and I heard what it is that you do, and I was so, I was so you were like, how did you say it? I loved how you said it. You were like, you know, I don’t remember what you said, but you were like, it’s like gold. Like I have this thing and I need, you know, I want women to know this thing.

And then my thought was like, oh, that’s amazing. Oh my God, what happens after and what happens when they start to experience postpartum depression or anxiety? Yeah. But like you said, been wanting this thing for seven years, 15 years, and then they get it and they’re still human and they’re still experiencing a potential human experience.

Well, now they’re going to feel guilty about those negative thoughts and those because they’re like, no, I can’t, I can’t think this way. I wanted this. I went out of my way. I paid thousands of dollars in IVF. Flushed it down the toilet to get this baby. Roseanne showed up. She was my little godmother gave me this freaking baby.

And now I don’t want to be around the baby. I am a terrible human being. What is wrong? Can I curse? Okay. I figured, but you know, you’re just like, what the fuck is wrong with me? And then, you know, it’s like, it’s mom guilt intensified. It’s guilt intensified because. You wanted this baby way more than I probably wanted my baby.

Actually, I, for a hundred percent fact, no, that’s true. I had my baby cause I was like, Ooh, you know, I’m 30. I should probably start to think about it. And like, I didn’t actually, I wasn’t like burning to have a baby. I wouldn’t have gone out of my way to have one. And I had one and I felt guilty afterwards because I didn’t like my child.

Not knowing I had depression. So how much more is it going to be for somebody in your client’s positions where they’re like, This miracle finally happened. Why do I feel so terrible? And I just want them to know that whether this happened when you were 23 or 45 and you worked really hard for it, you can still feel this way.

And that’s, that’s normal. You need help. You should ask for help, but it’s still something that it’s okay. And I just don’t want the added guilt that I know that they would feel. Yeah. And you know, I love that you’re saying that because I don’t necessarily know if I had. Depression after I had my son, but what I had was very confusing feelings.

It was interesting because I remember like nine days after he was born, we did this newborn photo shoot and it could have been a combination of exhaustion or many different things, but I was like, what is happening? I just want to get out of here, you know, and to your point. There was part of me that was fighting against that very, that truth saying, well, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Yeah. Here’s your newborn son. This was not a question about whether or not I loved him, of course, but there was something happening, which I think is an, an aspect of the postpartum situation, you know, and I remember thinking to myself, what the fuck is wrong with me? Yeah. Something’s not right with my ass.

Yeah. This is supposed to be the day that I had looked forward to doing the shoot, but everything in me was like, what is happening? Yeah. And correct me if I’m wrong, because I wasn’t in this situation. Did you, or some of the, your clients that you’ve talked to afterwards, were they like, I’m supposed to be, I expect it to be jubilant for the rest of my life.

Like I expected to live, you know, the unicorn thing that you said, like consistently. All the time for the rest of my life, you know, cause you finally got the thing. And so when you don’t have that, it’s like, Oh, I did something wrong. What did I, you know, I’m so fucked up. I’m such a bad person. I’m a monster.

I asked for this and now look at me. I’m so ungrateful. It’s all of that spiral, you know, and I love that we’re giving like this safe space here. To talk about the fact that truly two things can be true at the same time. You can deeply love your child and you can, part of you can be absolutely jubilant, but there can be another aspect of you.

That’s like, what is happening to me right now? Yeah. I talk about this in my book because I was very angry and I was like, people think that women are goddesses and the thought had occurred to me that they don’t actually think of us as goddesses. They think of us as more like the Virgin Mary or like really pious and like just beautiful all the time.

And like very, you know, like, I mean, people pray to the Virgin Mary, like that’s, it’s so lovely. No, if you think we’re goddesses, follow that logic, like really, truly. Look it up. Goddesses were fierce, and they were pissy, and they were emotional, and they were illogical, and they were happy, and they were sad, and they were jealous, like they were all the things.

So yeah, you’re absolutely right, we are goddesses. Absolutely. But that means we are all of those things and it gets intensified in motherhood because motherhood, the idea is that you are the Virgin Mary and you’re not your fucking goddess, which means that you get to have those dichotomies that you get to have those conflicting feelings.

And that’s okay. That’s the human experience. Is it not? Yeah. Yeah, it totally is. So, so why don’t you share a little bit about like, how was it that you began to give yourself some permission to explore this? Because You know, typically we would just push this away and say, you know what, I’m not even doing this like this is like craziness.

I’m just going to push through this. I’m just going to work through this and completely ignore what’s happening because I have a baby crying in the other room. You don’t have time to take care of yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So my tale is a cautionary one. Because I did not know what I was doing. And to your point, I have a baby crying in the other room and he was a terrible sleeper.

He was probably feeding off of my energy. So I think there was a lot of back and forth, like I’m miserable. So then he got miserable and his misery made me, you know, it was just terrible. It was a terrible catch 22. So I’m sitting there spiraling, not knowing why. So I just, I want to explain this to mamas.

You can have. The baby blues, which is pretty normal. And it lasts like two weeks after the baby. And that’s all the things that you’re going to feel that you expect to feel like you’re going to be tired and your body’s going to ache and you’re going to cry for absolutely no reason. And the example I use is like, you put the wrong sock on the wrong foot.

And suddenly you’re like, everything’s terrible. You know, it makes no sense. And you might feel that for like two weeks. And then if you still feel that way, three weeks in four weeks and two months in four months, then there’s something going on. And we tend to just be like, oh, well, it’s just motherhood and it’s hard and I’m sleep deprived.

Okay, well, at that point, you really should start to kind of feel at least not that consistently, you know, like the constant crying and that doesn’t, that’s not normal. So you should be able to ask for help. So I didn’t know that. So I was all of those things for months and months and months. Did and didn’t know.

And I was just like, and so correlation is causation in my head. So I became a mother at the same time I became depressed. That means because I didn’t know I was depressed that being a mother sucks. There’s just terrible. I made a huge mistake. How would I know? I’d never been depressed before. And it happened the same time I had Sammy.

So therefore This was a miss. I just, I was like, Oh, I fucked up. This was, what was I thinking? And I actually, Rosanna actually like go to people at the store that, you know, I’d be holding the baby and I’d be in line and they’d be checking me out. And then they’d say something about the baby. And I was like, don’t do it unless your loins are burning.

Do not have a baby. Like I was going mental begging people to not do it. And my husband was like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you, you know, he, he, I lost it. So then when I found out I was looking at his beautiful wife, the miss Arab USA, losing her shit in the grocery store. Yeah. I think he was like, Oh, she hid this part of herself.

And now I know who she really is. Like the real Suze came out and I, he was probably like, I think I made a mistake. You know what I mean? But like, he didn’t know I was dealing with this either. He just thought like I, he was now exposed to a whole new side of me. It was not, it was not good. And then when I found out I was, I was experiencing postpartum depression, at first I blew it off.

Cause I was like, I don’t have mental health issues. So that’s kind of you to ask, but no, and then, so I blew it off. And then when I did find out, I just got really pissed. I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like I, I, you expect me to deal with this on top of this, the baby? No, you know, I don’t have the energy.

And then when you are depressed, you don’t have the capacity. To be like, especially if you’re a new mom, you can’t be like, okay, um, here’s my list of things that I’m going to do that are coping mechanisms to make me feel better. Like, what can I, you know, you’re not thinking like that. So self care is not something that is readily on your mind, you know?

So that was, that was really, really hard. And so I suffered and struggled the entire time. So my book is like cautionary tale. It’s like, Hey, don’t do that. I love that. Well, you know, you also brought up a really interesting point. Many interesting points, but one that I want to go back to was about. Your energy, the energy that the two of you were feeding off, you were putting out energy and this beautiful baby is sensitive to that energy.

So there, it creates this thing. And I think that’s a part of this that we don’t think about very often and not like in a blaming way, like you brought this upon yourself, but just to be aware of it, that our energy is impacting. You know, the child is very interesting to me. I went to this place. There’s this place here.

I wish they had them everywhere. It’s called Modern Milk and it’s a place for mamas and babies. And you can, you can like take a yoga class and the baby just sits at the top of your mat and you know, you know, you do yoga or bar. It’s so lovely. And they have classes for, you know, for you to like learn how to sleep train and it was my favorite place.

It was, it saved my life, but it was so interesting because the sign when you walk in and says, happy mom, happy baby. And I remember thinking like, if I was happier. Would Sammy be happier? But like, what does that mean? Cause he, him existing has ruined my life. So how on earth am I supposed to be happier?

Like the fact, the reality is that he’s here and I, I regret that decision. And so, and these are, these are, these are my thoughts. And honestly, Rosanne, like I’m right now. Just to provide like future context right now, I’m actually going through, especially cause I’m doing all of this, like these podcast interviews and my second edition is coming out and my audio book drops, I hopefully tomorrow, if the audible thing works.

I don’t know if it drops tomorrow, but I am like grieving because I sit there and I, I, I talk about this so much and I get, I get, oh my God, I get really sad thinking of like the time that I had with Sammy that I, like, it should have been this beautiful experience and it wasn’t, and I had, and I understand like, yeah, you’re going to be tired and all that stuff, but like the negative thoughts that I had toward him, um, yeah.

That like, it, it like shocks me that I felt that way and I thought that way. And now I’m like, Oh my God, I like, I lost that time and it makes me so sad. And like, we didn’t get to connect the way I wanted to because of that energy that, you know, I was feeding him and he was feeding back to me. And it makes me really, really sad.

And you’re so kind and brave, generous, all of these things to share that reality, that human. Aspect of it, because you could come on here and be like, Oh, you know, I got over it. But I think the reality is, is we get so many bumps and bruises in this life that the more that we can share that reality from an empowered place, from a place of service in the way that you are, it just opens up the door for normalizing this conversation and giving women permission to say.

This is me too. And here’s what I did about it. Yeah. Yeah. I think we’ve gotten better at that than probably, you know, eight years ago when I was experiencing this about being like, Oh, I think I’m having a hard time. But I think the problem is, is once you’ve acknowledged it, it might be a little bit easier, but acknowledging it and sort of like accepting like, Oh, wait, I’m something’s wrong that I think that’s the hard part.

It’s like step negative one of dealing with this is sort of. Noticing being aware of your, of your, like, of your feelings inside of your body and how your relationships are changing. And yeah, so that to me, I think that’s the hard part is actually being like, Oh, I actually don’t think I’m okay. I actually think this is so much bigger than just being a tired mama or overwhelmed mama.

What was it for you though? Like, what was your tip off? Like, aside from having that outburst in the grocery store, like that was a lot, by the way, that was not one outburst. Oh, okay. So like, so what was it for you that kind of said, all right, yeah, you know what? I’m not. All right. Okay. So I used to be an actor and before we had kids and me and my husband, that’s where we met.

We met at an acting studio. And so we would make movies, indie films, and it was so much fun. And like, that was our entire courtship was on the set of films. And, and, you know, we’d watch the sun come up over the mountains while we were shooting outside freezing, you know, like all these like beautiful, cool things.

And I, you know, I made some cool movies and some of them were like action. And like, I just, I was like, Angelina Jolie was so bad ass. And I traveled a lot and I was an activist and I had like been in a war zone and I had gotten shot at. And I was like, I was like big, you know, I was big. I did the Miss Arab USA thing for a year.

Like I did big stuff. And then I didn’t, then I was stuck in a condo with my little baby. And that was really hard because the drastic difference. It was just so noticeable. It was like, God, I went from being this like really big person who was so busy doing all these like really cool and creative and different things to just being locked up with the child, the size of a Boston Terrier.

And I’m like, this sucks. This like really, really sucks. And I couldn’t wrap my head around like, Oh, this is temporary or, Oh, Hey, this is the most important thing you’ll ever do. And it’s actually really beautiful. Like if somebody told me that I’d be like, fuck off, you know, like I, it’s, you can’t take that in.

You cannot do it. So one day, Kasa, my husband. I had like one of my weird meltdowns and I wasn’t okay. And I had severe anxiety and he was like, he kind of got mad. And he was like, do you want to leave? And I’m like, what are you talking about? Leave, leave where? And he’s like, Sammy ruined your life. If you can go in quotes, do you, um, just leave, like take money, go to LA, go do your movies, go do whatever it is that you think Sammy has ruined for you and go and come back when you like, when he’s more manageable.

And I got this like clear idea of the way I was. How I was being perceived like for costume to think that I actually wanted to leave. I was like, what are you seeing that because you can’t see yourself in those situations. So I was like, what, what is he seeing that he actually thinks that that was a viable option for me.

I don’t, I don’t want to leave. And that was really, really shocking. And that’s when I sort of broke down and I was like, I’m not, I’m not at all. Okay. And I sort of gave myself permission to be honest with him because as a mom and as the primary caretaker, I was just supposed to do it right. And because I wasn’t doing it right.

And I was floundering. The last thing I wanted to do was like, tell him I was floundering. So I just walked around acting like I was, you know, pretending everything’s fine. This is just really hard. And not really letting himself see the imperfections or sorry, letting him see my imperfections. So being like really, really open with him was really, really hard, but we were losing each other.

So it was, it was kind of, it was kind of necessary. And that’s when he was like, Oh, so he’s, you know, he’s an entrepreneur and he runs his own company and he runs multiple companies and I was so lonely and I was so alone. And so after that, he started coming home at the same time every day and we started this little schedule where it’s funny because later it actually was kind of dooming for our relationship.

But in the meantime, the schedule was. You know, I’d get like all of us get like, how did we do it? Like I get half of Saturday, Saturday morning, and then he’d get Saturday afternoon and we’d spend Sunday as a family. Like we kind of made this like little schedule for ourselves because I need that I, and I needed for me to like be alone time, cause I’m an introvert.

So I needed to like go take my book and sit at a coffee shop, you know, or like run, even running errands, like made me happy as long as I was by myself. And I didn’t talk to people, so I did that, but we sort of kind of came up with the system. And if he knew, if he knew I wasn’t okay, because I would tell him like, I’m not okay.

He would just like, take the baby. And he would let me kind of go through, like, if I was having anxiety and I, you know, whatever it was, he would like, give me the space to feel that. And we understood that it was a mental health issue. And it wasn’t me being like a little.

Cause that’s how I felt for a lot of reasons. Cause I should, I should be good at this cause I’m a fucking mom. And it’s in my, it’s in my DNA, right? I should just naturally know how to do this. Rosanna, I didn’t know how to push. Like she had to tell me when to push. And I remember thinking like, but you hear these crazy stories about how like women give birth in a car because they just felt the need to push and they couldn’t hold it in.

And I don’t know how, like, so right into it, I was like, well, I suck. I can’t, I can’t, can’t do anything. Like even my own biology was failing me. That was so, it was just really maddening, you know, from, from day one. Yeah, but you know what, I, it’s such a powerful thing to be able to share at that level. I mean, cause I had a similar, I remember after I had my son Asher and he’ll be six, I remember thinking, is somebody going to tell me when I’m supposed to breastfeed him?

Like I didn’t know either, like, like I was like at the time, I mean, I had gone to law school. So like, I mean. Some of this stuff. I mean, I think we take it for granted. I think there’s a narrative out there that’s, that’s really insidious to trap women into this. Well, you’re so, you know, it’s natural and you do this and you do that.

And at the same time, we’re also told to go out into the workplace and slay. So it’s like, we’re so disconnected from our feminine. Right. Yet we’re expected to know this right and pick one, bro. You can’t have it all. Yeah. And it, you know, and I think that it’s such an interesting thing to be in a place where we can own our shortcomings without making them.

You know, this horrible thing, like you’re a failure as a human being, because you have these shortcomings, right? And it’s like, well, wait a minute. Like I spent most of my adult life in my masculine energy first as a prosecutor, then as an entrepreneur building, you know, my own thing that it’s like, I’m just supposed to know this out in the wild.

Like, I don’t know. Right. I don’t know. So, I mean, it sounds stupid, but I think that the more. We normalize that and allow women to, to digest the idea that, Hey, one, it’s okay to not be okay, right? It’s okay to ask for help because most of us, I mean, I think there’s going to be another wave of a more evolved version of feminism that allows us to own it all.

Not just be in the masculine, but embrace both the masculine and the feminine within us. That’s my, that’s certainly my prayer. And that certainly looks like it may be headed in that direction because I think that the next step for women is really to be able to say, I am all of this. I am the mess. I am also the neatness.

I am the complexity and I am the simplicity, right? Embracing all of that. Yeah. Yeah. There’s this line in Downton Abbey that I quote a lot where somebody, the Dowager, she goes, I’m a woman. I can be as contrary as I like. And I’m like, exactly. Exactly. It’s just like who it’s what we’re known for. Like just, it’s just who we are, but it’s actually what I think is so beautiful about femininity is because, and there’s, and there’s men who have that type of feminine energy.

So I’m just talking about like the femininity aspect, but the, the reason I think it’s so cool is because it allows you to see things from different vantage points. It’s not, I think women particularly are really good at not seeing it as so black and white. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And I think that’s also why like this topic is so powerful because I think we, as women, as we return to the empowered feminine, because like, it’s not empowered to be cut off from your femininity completely correct.

It’s kind of this, it’s this pendulum swing, which is, I think, bringing us back to the center where we can see both sides of this to be able to say, as you’re saying, I’m not okay. It’s okay for me to ask for help. It’s okay for me to also ask my partner to, to be part of this. Cause that’s the other thing.

I mean, I love that you were able to ask Kazem, you know, to be there for you and that the two of you created this schedule in that sense. I mean, it sounds like, you know, the wheels fell off of that schedule probably at some point. Yeah. You at least had a partner that was there to listen. Well, the thing is, is they all like, so I’ll go on like dad podcasts and I’ll talk to dads and they’re like, tell me what to do.

Tell me, you know, because they like, they really want to do the thing. And so here’s what they do. Here’s what they do. They go out and they work. Because that’s the thing that they know how to do. And they’re like, I don’t know what to do. I’m not the mom. I don’t have boobs. So I’m going to go and I’m going to go out and I’m going to do the thing.

I know how to do better than I’ve ever done it because that’s the masculine energy and they’re going to go out and they’re going to kill the antelope and bring it back to us, you know? And they do that so well. And it almost like they do it like obsessively because now it’s not like you, you can go fend for yourself, you know, but now you’ve got this baby to take care of.

And so they’re going to go and they’re going to do to the best of their ability. And. That’s all they know that they can do. And you’re not telling them that there’s anything else that they need to do, then they’re just going to go and do that. And that’s it. You know, I love that you’re saying that because I think in a very empowered way.

It’s an invitation for us to take responsibility for our lives. Self advocate. Yeah. It’s like, Hey, yeah. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s like these, you know, when you have somebody in your life that is into you enough to have this baby with you, they want to be there. Right. And it’s like, tell them just. Tell them what it is that you need, even if it may not come out perfectly the first time, tell them, yeah, you set everybody up for a win, win.

And most importantly, you feel seen and you feel heard because I am sure when you were in the depths of despair and in your pain. There’s probably nothing you wanted more than to be heard. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. But I wanted you to read my mind. I needed you to just, just know by my face and my sigh and my, like, tears.

But he didn’t, he didn’t know. So he just went out and he just did the best that he knew how to do, which was to make money so we could be safe and happy. And I come from a, um, my parents are immigrants. So I have this, like, I have this mentality of how it could be really bad and I’m so blessed and I’m so lucky and I think this falls into like something that your audience can understand because I could have had it so much worse.

I could have been, it could have grown up where my parents grew up and it, you know, would have been so hard and, and so, but no, I grew up here and I’m safe and I’m happy and I have everything and I, my water isn’t being cut off and I don’t live under oppression and, and so shut the fuck up. And just be fucking happy, or at least don’t complain and whine about it, you know, and so when I would have those dark thoughts in my head, they sounded like I was whining and I didn’t, I, that, that was like, I was like almost disgusted with myself, you know, because I, cause I always grew up with so much gratitude about the life that we have.

And then my, my life only got better when I got married and I lived in Scottsdale. I was like, I live in a resort town. I’m looking at palm trees right now. You know, I’ve been to Scottsdale. I love it. Amazing. It’s amazing. And so I’m, you know, I’m so blessed to sit here and be like, I’m sad. You know, it really was like, It was very confusing to my brain because I was like, well, what more do you want?

You know, like I didn’t understand. I’m still learning this really hardcore that your emotional needs are so freaking important to your entire wellbeing, like even your physical wellbeing. And this is something that I’m only recently like really allowing myself to feel and, you know, sitting in my feelings and being like, well, I’m feeling this and I don’t really know why.

And I don’t have a. Analytical logical reason for it, but it’s there and it means something. And so I’m just going to let myself feel it. And yes, there are people in worse situations than I I’m in, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t matter. And my feelings don’t matter. And so I’m, and I’m trying really hard to keep reminding myself of it does not come easy.

This is something that I, on a consistent basis, have to remind myself. So, you know, when we’re looking at your, at your audience and they’re like, I’m so blessed and I have everything and look, and I feel so guilty, you know, that that’s something that I just, I just want to kind of put out there. Oh yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it’s like, I see this all the time. Like, you know, women who have accomplished multiple, like incredible things in their lives, but this is the one thing they can’t get this baby that they want all the things. And then they back off the dream and say, well, I should just be happy because I have a partner.

I have a career I have. Money. I have this. Well, then I should just shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. Wait a second. Yeah. Truth. Truth is the shit that we can’t run away from. Oh, I love that line. Oh, I want to write that down. Yeah. I mean, well, you can’t outrun it. No. You can’t out wealth it. You can’t out party it.

You can’t read it. That truth is there. So that that’s the same thing. I, you know, I tell women all the time, like if this desire in your heart to be a mom is there, it’s because it’s meant for you. So don’t give up on it. Right. Don’t give up on that. And just like in your situation, slightly different was.

You had a need and you felt it and that’s truth and you weren’t able to run away from it. There was this invitation, you know, Suzanne come in, like you need to get to this next level of consciousness for you so that you could be better. Cause like, I know that you’re super hard on yourself, right? Like you’re super hard on yourself.

But think about how much more you can give your sons because you did this work. Yeah. Think about how much more open as a parent. You are, because you own the feeling, you don’t have to have, you know, a logical explanation, which is, this is, you know, so hard. Yeah. Well, from the neck up is where fear lives.

This is where the bullshit lives is from the neck up. I really think from the neck down is where truth lives, right? Oh, I’m writing this down too. Oh my God. You know, cause, cause think about it. Like, yes, you went through crazy shit. Yes. There was a period of time you weren’t. You know, you didn’t have access to the person that you truly wanted to be, but think about how much better you are because of that.

Yeah. You, I hate this, that this is true, but you grow and learn about yourself when things are hard. You know, like if things are all sunshine and daisies, you’re just not going to notice that, Hey, maybe I should be working on this. So I hate that because I want to be able to grow when things are good. And I don’t, it’s not so hard.

It’s a different kind of growth, right? It’s a growth that. Doesn’t have an exclamation point after it. It’s like, Oh my God. Yeah. It’s kind of more of this. Oh, I’m gently raising my consciousness as opposed to, you know, what am I going to do? How am I going to get through the day? But, you know, so what is it that you, like, if you were going to, so as women go out and totally blow up Amazon to get your book, you know, what are some of the things, like, Maybe just a couple things that you would encourage women to keep in mind if they find themselves in this place.

God, you’re allowed to not be okay. And I, you know, we said that it’s okay to not be okay, but I really don’t think that we take that in and you’re allowed to say something’s wrong. I’m not okay. And sometimes that requires like. You even know, like, how would you know that you’re not okay? So this is why I want to educate women about like the difference between baby blues and postpartum depression.

If you’re still experiencing those things a few weeks in a couple of months in, you know, stop and think maybe, maybe I’m not okay. And, and the hard part is it’s like, if you’re having a good day, you might be like, oh, no, everything’s fine, you know? But so you have to kind of look at the overall picture here of how are, how are you feeling overall?

How much of yourself is still is still there. And so that’s one thing I would say. The other thing that I would say is God bless our partners, but you know, sometimes you want to be like, Hey, I’m going to send you to your sisters in six months. You’re welcome. You know, to, to, to take a break. And I’m like, that’s nice.

What do I do for the next six months? Like, you know, you know, so I need little daily wins today. I went on my bike. And I looked for all these purple trees that grow just right now for about six weeks in, in Phoenix. And that’s the only time we get them. And I know that they make me really happy and I’m, I’m having a really crazy, crazy day.

So I took about 15, 20 minutes and I went on my bike and I went around and I looked at trees. And that made me happier than I, anything I could think of. And I, like, I try to give myself those little daily wins as it, as it were that recharge me in ways that I need. So as an introvert, like I said, you know, I’m, I’d rather just go out on a bike than like, go have lunch with a friend.

That’s what works for me. So it’s so funny. Cause a lot of it is like really trying to understand yourself and really being like, really being aware of the things that you need. And that’s a big ask. It’s a big ask, but the bigger ask. That I would say is actually asking for help is a, is a bigger ask.

Because the thing is, is like, you could have depression all day and people could know about it all day. But until you actually say like, okay, like the first step is, is, is on you. And I feel like that’s the big ask. Because you’re tired and you’re depressed and you’re anxious and you’re guilty and you’re all these things.

And I’m still asking of you, you have to be the one to stand up and ask for help. And that’s, that’s really, really hard. Yeah. I think those are, are beautiful sentiments. And I think that the more women get into, and I love that we’re catching women at this point, you know, before their baby comes. Yeah. But like, I mean, cause you try to hammer this to women all the time.

Like Ask for some fucking help, you know, like, but it makes perfect sense because you look at the most successful people in the world. They didn’t get there on their own. Oh, never drive. Yes. There’s natural talent. There’s drive. But there’s always somebody in the background, helping them hone their talent, helping them see the blind spots, you know, helping propel them forward.

No man is an Island. But somehow we get this idea that if you ask for help, you’re weak or that if you have somebody coaching you or, you know, is a trusted advisor, trusted counsel, that’s going to help, you know, help you get out of that rut that you’re somehow weak. It’s nonsense. It’s like the biggest scam there is.

It’s a scam. It’s a scam. It’s a total scam. You know, just like the scam of the overnight success, we all know that’s not true, right? You know, it takes time and it takes consistency and it takes the discipline, you know, love the overnight success, but it’s like, that’s not actually what this whole process.

Yeah. So two things I’ll say, first of all, the village that they talk about, like it takes a village to raise a child. I’m sure the children love the village, but they need connections with their mom and dad more than anybody else. Like that’s, those healthy attachments are more important than, you know, your attachment with your neighbor.

So for me, I was like, Oh, the village is for the mom. That’s for her. It’s not for the baby. It takes a village to raise a child because you need some fucking help. You know, like that, that’s why like they should finish that proverb. So maybe they do. I don’t know. Maybe at least not in the book I got. I didn’t hear that.

Yeah. They had to edit it. Cause it was, there was profanity at the end. Yeah. Yeah. But the other thing I’ll say is the other day I was at like a big extended family dinner and it was like friends of family and we were all hanging out in this, there was this mom that had a four month old. And I know so much now.

And so I, I sat down next to her and I was like, how are you? And she’s like, I’m good. I’m like, no. And I looked right at her and I’m like, really, how are you? And then she’s like, I mean, you know, like I’m okay. And she started kind of going into it. She’s like, it was, you know, it was weird at first. I think I’m getting a handle on things and it’s been really hard cause my partner’s struggling and, you know, and so she’s going on all these things and then, and I’m looking at the baby and, you know, I’m trying to like distract the baby while she’s talking to me and then she stops and she goes.

You know, I just realized you’re the first person to actually ask me that, but like really ask me. And I was really sad for her because nobody really asks, nobody really asks. And she was like, and you know, what’s so weird. And guys, I mean, like, please listen to this. She’s like, it’s so weird because nobody, not only do people not ask, but like, when they see me with the baby, they don’t even look at me.

Like they go, you know, it’s like relatives, like they go straight for him and they grab the baby. And they like, well, like, she’s not like, she’s a piece of furniture. And she’s like, it was so, it was so weird. And then people have this like weird ownership over your baby. Cause they’ll be like, how’s my nephew.

And we do that. It’s like, I do that too. I love my nieces. And I’m like, how’s my little niece? You know? But it made her feel like it wasn’t her baby. It was his nephew and that coupled with like not even looking at her in the eye and asking her how she’s doing and just taking the baby out of her hands.

And, you know, and so it’s like, you can go and have your time with your nephew. It just made her feel so invisible. And so how are you supposed to talk to those people and tell those people that you’re not okay? You know, it’s really hard. Yeah. And I think this goes back to your point. We have to take care of ourselves.

The contact and the health and the, the equanimity in the family, it’s here, it’s mom, dad, baby, like you guys need to sort, I mean, that needs to be solid. Yeah. And all of those people need to be taken care of first. Everyone else can fucking wait, you know? Yeah. But to keep that healthy and sane and loving, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but like at least have the conversation.

I mean, this is so powerful. So thank you, woman. I am so freaking delighted and we’re going to put a link to this amazing book in the show notes. We’re going to put it in, you know, everywhere out there in social, but where can people follow you and, and hear more of your message? Cause the expectation that I have in my heart.

Is that every one of my ladies is going to get there is going to have their day and they’re going to want to hear from you through it. So, well, thank you. I was so glad when we met in Dallas, I was like, we need to talk. This is important. You’re like step one and I’m step two. You know, I’m like, find our powers.

This would be amazing. So I am a millennial. So I’m on Instagram. Please do not find me on. Tick tock or snap. I am not there. I do not live there. So Susie team. Awesome. I know you’ll have that in the, in the show notes as well. And my audible comes out this month. So you’ll be able to listen. Cause I know I’ve had a lot of mamas that are like, I don’t read, when am I supposed to read your book?

So, you know, now you could fold laundry and look around for your missing iced coffee while you. Yeah. Listen to my book and the second edition is out. So it’s updated with a little bit more nuggets of wisdom that I’ve collected throughout this year while talking to all these amazing women and all being on all these podcasts.

And yeah, it’s so lovely talking to you. Yeah. Well, I’m so glad that we were able to have this conversation, woman, and I’m so happy for you. So happy that you’re doing the work. All this amazing information out really creating a safe space to have this conversation. That’s all I want. I just want to hold your hand and I want to make you laugh a little, you know, in the book, the book, it’s a dark comedy.

You’re going to chuckle a little bit and you’re going to see my really weird, dark, dry English humor. Um, I just want to hold your hand and make you feel like you’re not alone. Yeah. Well, I love that woman. I love you. I am so happy for, for what you’re doing in the world. So thank you so much for joining us.

Thank you, Roseanne. Talk to you soon. Loves, wasn’t that a fascinating conversation with Susie? I am so grateful that we had that opportunity. And I think it’s really cool to be able to have this conversation in a really open way. And you know what? Hey! Make it okay to not be okay at times, right? But you also have to be smart and get help and learn how to think and feel through that process.

And I’m so grateful for all of the wisdom that Suzy shared with all of us. So do check out her book on Amazon, Postpardon Me. It’s available on Audible as well. So it’s super cool. Now, at the time that you’ll be listening to this episode, we are winding down from summer. Like, autumn, it is rolling in real quick.

And I really want you to be thinking about how you want to use the rest of this year. And if you really want to get to the end of the year and say, you know what? I absolutely positively, 100 percent certain that I did not squander any time. I really dug in. I did the work. I covered my bases, mind and body, and I’m super fucking excited about what I’m going to create in 2024.

Then get your application in mama for my fearlessly fertile method program. This is my signature eight week program. This program is for women who intend to get pregnant in the next 12 months and say hell yes to covering their bases, mind and body. So to look back on this time in your life with regret.

I work with women committed to success and their results speak for themselves. So go to my website www.FromMaybeToBaby.com and apply for an interview there. My methodology is help women around the world make their mom dreams come true. As I said, their results speak for themselves. And if you don’t have a mindset for success on this journey, baby, you got to keep it all in your strategy.

Let’s fix that shit and set you up for success. Till next time, change your mindset, change your results. Love this episode of the Fearlessly Fertile podcast? Subscribe now and leave an awesome review. Remember, the desire in your heart to be a mom is there because it was meant for you. When it comes to your dreams, keep saying hell yes.

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