Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell '97 - Facing Fear, Leading with Courage

THE LONG BLUE LEADERSHIP PODCAST

A-10 Warthog pilot and combat veteran, Col. (Ret.) Kim “KC” Campbell ’97, recounts an incident over Baghdad leading her to make a decision that changed her life then and informs how she leads to this day.

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SUMMARY

Kim shares her leadership journey, from overcoming resistance to pursuing her dreams to describing the life changing effect one very long hour had in the cockpit of her A-10. She emphasizes the importance of continuous improvement and professional development throughout one's career. She discusses the challenges of balancing life and leading, and the lessons she learned from failures and pushing outside her comfort zone. She shares the importance of having a wingman who supports you in both personal and professional aspects of life.

OUR FAVORITE QUOTES

"Any leader that isn't working to be better and trying to develop themselves along the way, is probably going to hit an endpoint at some point. We have to constantly learn to improve and adapt and it requires work. Leadership requires work."

"When I started out, I had this idea that leadership was like, put on this tough exterior, have the answers, be strong and credible and capable.”

"I absolutely think leadership requires work. It's not easy. There are challenges, there are things to learn, things to adapt. It's just constantly one of those things that professional development, for me is something that should continue throughout your career throughout your life, always looking for new ways."

"I think one of the things that really sticks out to me that we learned as cadets is the idea of having a wingman by your side personally, professionally. Someone that will have your back someone that will support you."

"If you want something, you're going to have to work for it. And it's not going to be easy."

- Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell '97

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CHAPTERS

00:00: Continuous Improvement and Professional Development
03:52: Overcoming Resistance and Pursuing Dreams
06:36: Lessons from Running Cross-Country
08:58: Persistence and Overcoming Rejection
13:02: Leadership Journey at the Air Force Academy
15:17: Finding Passion and Purpose in the A-10
16:14: Life-Changing Moment in Baghdad
19:51: Lessons and Vulnerability in Writing a Book
22:09: Balancing Life and Leadership
26:14: Leadership Development and Growth
28:37: Authenticity and Human Connection in Leadership
32:16: Family's Influence on Leadership
36:58: Learning from Failure and Pushing Outside Comfort Zone
41:11: Building Human Connections and Getting to Know People
42:34: The Importance of Having a Wingman
43:31: The Importance of Having a Wingman
43:59: How to Get in Touch
44:30: Connect with Kim
44:55: Feedback and Connection
45:26: The Story Behind the Call Sign
45:54: Book Title and Conclusion

OUR FAVORITE TAKEAWAYS

- Leadership requires continuous improvement and professional development.
- Overcoming resistance and pursuing dreams are essential in leadership.
- Balancing life and leadership is a challenge that requires flexibility and grace.
- Building human connections and having a wingman for support are crucial in leadership.

KIM'S BIO

Kim “KC” Campbell is a retired Colonel who served in the Air Force for over 24 years as a fighter pilot and senior military leader. She has flown 1,800 hours in the A-10 Warthog, including more than 100 combat missions protecting troops on the ground in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2003, Kim was awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for Heroism after successfully recovering her battle-damaged airplane after an intense close air support mission.

As a senior military leader, Kim has led hundreds of Airmen both at home and abroad in deployed locations and enabled them to succeed in their missions. She has experience leading complex organizations and driving cultural change. Kim knows what it takes to be a successful leader, to inspire and empower high performance teams to achieve success. Kim is passionate about leadership and feels strongly that leaders earn trust by leading with courage and connecting with their team.

- Bio copy and image credit: www.kim-kc-campbell-com

CONNECT WITH KIM | LEARN MORE | BUY FLYING IN THE FACE OF FEAR

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FULL TRANSCRIPT

SPEAKERS

Our guest, Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell, '97 | Our host, Naviere Walkewicz '99

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 00:11

Any leader that isn't working to be better and trying to develop themselves along the way, is probably going to hit an endpoint at some point. We have to constantly learn to improve and adapt and it requires work. Leadership requires work. It's, you know — it's not easy. There are challenges; there are things to learn. Professional development should continue throughout your career, throughout your life, always looking for new ways.

Naviere Walkewicz 01:07

My guest today is retired Col. Kim Casey Campbell, a 1997 graduate of the Air Force Academy, a warrior whose career included supporting warfighters on the ground from the cockpit of an A-10 Warthog, where she earned the callsign “Killer Chick.” She's a mom, wife of a retired Air Force colonel and published author. She's a motivational speaker on the topic of leadership. That includes the story of a moment where, if she hadn't also learned to be a good follower, she might not be with us today — as in, not alive. Col. Campbell's path to the Air Force Academy was one of overcoming resistance; she won the first fight of her life to join the wing, then she went on to lead it. We’ll talk with her about her book, “Flying in the Face of Fear,” her time at the Academy, and much more. Kim, thank you for being here today.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 01:54

Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Naviere Walkewicz 01:56

It's always a pleasure speaking to someone that — we were at the Academy the same time. I was, ’99. You're my upper classmen? You probably had me do pushups or something? And you recently came back for your reunion?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 02:11

Well, now that I live in Colorado, it's always, you know — I get to spend a lot of time at the Air Force Academy. But it is always so good to see my classmates. And I think it's so much fun, because you kind of forget anything that was bad. And the memories are things that you might want to forget. And it's just, I don't know, fun to bring everybody back together again and see everyone and see what people have accomplished. And you know, their personal life and professional life. It's just a lot of fun.

Naviere Walkewicz 02:36

I love that. I find that, you know, things stayed the same, but they're different. What was something that really stood out to you that you thought was a kind of a span that that space of time, it really didn't get touched? What was something that stood out?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 02:48

I don't know. I mean, having taught at the Air Force Academy as well, I find that, like, the drive to serve. And I just — it's fun to see, like, where the cadets are now and their excitement to serve and to graduate and go out and be lieutenants in the Air Force and Space Force. So that's definitely something new. But that drive that we all had — it's kind of a reminder of where we were back then and that excitement that we felt for what's to come. And it's fun to see that [in] my cadets today, too.

Naviere Walkewicz 03:15

I agree, I have the pleasure of being able to come back through work and see some of those cadets, and I'm always blown away at what they're able to accomplish now, much more I think, than what we did when we were here.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 03:25

I love the opportunity to mentor cadets when I get the chance and, you know, just the amazing things that they have in front of them — challenges and opportunities — but really excited for them about what's ahead.

Naviere Walkewicz 03:39

Yes. So, speaking about cadets, let's kind of dial back the time a little bit. Our listeners want to get to know you better. Let's go back in time for you. What were you like as a young girl? What was your childhood like? Where'd you grow up? Things like that.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 03:54

Well, I grew up in San Jose, California. My dad was an Air Force Academy grad class of 1970. I had zero desire to go to the Air Force Academy or to join the military until 1986. And it was not “Top Gun.” But it was actually the launch of the Space Shuttle Challenger. And I think, for me, there was just something in that moment of, you know — obviously the thrill and excitement of flight, but then watching the tragedy that played out. I think there was something in that moment that I just connected with in terms of, like, this idea that the astronauts died doing something that they believed in, something that was bigger and more important than themselves. And that was a turning point for me. I mean, I think before that, I probably wasn’t all that driven, didn’t really have anything that I was going after, kind of along for the ride in school. But once I decided that that’s what I wanted to do — I wanted to be an astronaut — it flipped a switch. I mean, I just became very driven, very committed. I talked to my parents about it. And my dad said, “Well, a lot of those astronauts were pilots and many of them had gone to the Air Force Academy. It might be something you would consider.” I don’t think he actually thought I would go through with it. And I think it, for me — that was a huge turning point. I think my life changed dramatically from kind of the young social butterfly, not a lot of interest, along for the ride… and then really committed and driven...

Naviere Walkewicz 05:20

So what did that look like when you said it changed dramatically? What did you do differently from that point?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 05:25

Well, I talked to my dad about the things that I needed to do to get into the Air Force Academy. And I became very committed. In school, … I was already involved with sports, but now it was like, how to be the best at what I was doing and being more involved in just various extracurricular activities. And then I joined the Civil Air Patrol. And that was my first opportunity to wear an Air Force uniform and start learning about this thing called leadership. And I really figured out that I enjoyed it. I love the attention to detail, the sense of camaraderie. And so that, for me — it was like this turning point. I kind of just took a different path. And even my friends were, you know — they watched me completely change and shift the things that I was interested in doing.

Naviere Walkewicz 06:08

That's really interesting, because it was one moment in time that really changed your trajectory quite a bit. Absolutely. Not to jump to your book yet, but there was a story in there that really stood out to me, and it kind of is probably along the timeframe when you made some changes in your decisions. But it was when you're running cross country. And you talked a little bit about how you handled a particular situation. Do you mind sharing that? I just think that's a great story to talk about how driven you were?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 06:37

Yeah, I ran cross country. I knew it would be good for me to go to the Air Force Academy. Again, everything I did, there was, like, some motivation to, you know, how I can prepare myself to be at the Air Force Academy. I also love to run so I was running cross country — it was, I think, the district finals and a cross country race. You know, we're all jammed in at the front before the gun sounds. And then, you know, it's the sprint to try to get out in front. And during this race, all packed in, a runner accidentally stepped on the back of my shoe and it came off and there was, like, this second of hesitation of, like, “Well, should I stop? Should I put on the shoe? What do I do?” And I just thought, “Well, then I'm going to be at the back. How am I going to get up to the front?” So I decided to keep running, you know, which, at the time, I didn't really consider all the consequences. But I kept running. I ran, I think it was about 2 miles — I raced through the hills, initially pavement and then hills in San Jose, California. And it was so funny, because my coach had seen the shoe laying in the parking lot. All the coaches are kind of standing around looking at each other. … And she’s like, “Oh, I know, that's Kim’s shoe.” Like, she just knew. And I ended up finishing the race. ... It wasn't my best performance — without the shoe — and it was pretty painful by the end. But I think more than anything, that moment for my dad sealed in this idea of like, “Maybe she does have what it takes.” Like, "Maybe she does have the mental toughness,” because I think there was a part of him that wasn't really sure that I was gonna go through with it, that I would be able to handle the stress and the challenges. And I think that one moment for him was like, “All right, she's got something…, she's got it.” So, it was a turning point, although it did earn me a pair of crutches and a trip to the emergency room. Yeah. So, you know, consequences. I learned those as well.

Naviere Walkewicz 08:35

I think that is a great story. It was one of the moments in the book where I just felt really connected to you. I thought, “Wow, that is truly showing grit and perseverance. And I have something I’m going to do.” And so, it leads into a lot of, I think, where you've had in your career, I've had some moments like that. Yeah. So maybe we can dive a little bit into your journey to the Air Force Academy. Because, as I mentioned in the introduction, you didn't get accepted the first time; there was some resistance. Let's talk about that.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 09:04

Yeah, you know, you do everything possible to go to the Academy. I mean, I worked hard in school, I did these extracurricular activities. Let's just say my [Law School Admission Test] scores weren't spectacular. And I knew that, but I was hoping that everything else would kind of make up for it. And I just kept trying on my LSAT. I took it five times [and got] the same score five times even after taking a course, and so that was an area of struggle. And in April of my senior year, I got that letter in the mail and I was really excited because it was the blue letterhead and it said AF on it. I should have known because it was a small letter and it said, you know, “Thanks for applying, but it's very competitive and essentially, try again next year.” And I was devastated. Devastated because that's all I wanted; it was all I had worked for. It was, for me — I really didn’t want to go anywhere else. My parents made me apply to other schools but I didn’t ­— it wasn't what I wanted. And, you know, thankfully, I had this team of people around me that were supportive, between my parents and my teachers, my liaison officer — my liaison officer who was my dad's classmate from the Academy class of ’70. He said, “You know, Kim, if this is what you want, don’t quit. Go after it, you know, keep working hard, we’ll get you there.” You know, it was like, it didn't mean this year. But I think he was just trying to, you know, give me the pep talk of like, “You can still do this, don't quit on it.” And he said, “You might consider writing the Academy a letter.” And I was like, oh, you know, this is the day of handwritten letters. And instead of one letter, I decided I would write the Academy, the admissions office, every week, to tell them anything I had done to improve. You know, an A on a test, 10 more push-ups, a few more pull ups. And then, eventually, I took the ACT and got a better score, got a competitive score, and finally got my acceptance letter in June, so like, you know, the first part of June before reporting and it said, you know, “We, we will accept you as part of the class of 1997.” And, you know, there was no doubt in my mind, I mean, I had other plans, I was going on an ROTC scholarship to [the University of California at ] San Diego. And immediately, when I got that letter, I knew that my path was going to change because I obviously — that was what I wanted. But yeah, the rejection hurt, certainly. But I think it also gave me motivation.

Naviere Walkewicz 11:21

I was going to say, it seemed like you learned something about yourself. You know, a lot of our listeners are looking for, you know, when they're listening, it's not always the highs that get people to the next level. Sometimes, working through some of those trials and tribulation — what's something you learned about yourself in that in that moment?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 11:36

Well, it's funny, I mean, like you say, sometimes the things that aren't on our bio or résumé, are the things that make us really stronger and who we are. And that rejection was a little bit of a turning point for me, because I think about, you know, I could have quit, I could have quit on my dream. But again, that support network that was around me, that encouraged me to just go after it. And I kind of used that rejection as almost motivation to make sure I didn't just survive at the Academy, but to excel. Like, I was almost like, I needed to prove that I belonged here. Even after, the admissions office called me to the office — after I had gone through basic training — and they wanted to meet me because they had seen all these letters. But it is it is a little bit of like, if you want something, you gotta go after it. It's not always going to be easy; there's going to be challenges. And if you know, if it's truly what you want, then you’ve got to stick with it. And despite, you know, a little bit of painful rejection along the way.

Naviere Walkewicz 12:35

You've shown what, you know, going for something that's really important to you looks like, and I think there's something to be taken from that for our listeners, for sure. So, from almost not getting into the Academy to being the wing commander, the cadet wing commander — share a little bit about that journey, because not many of us experience that either.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 12:52

Yeah, well, it goes back to a little bit of proving that I belonged here. You know, I think for me … maybe because of my parents, you know, they instilled in me this idea that if you want to fix something or if you want to make a mark on something, then you have to kind of step up. And I just realized that I really enjoyed the leadership roles that I had, whether it was team captain of sports, or once I joined the Civil Air Patrol, I kind of felt this natural pull to be a leader in those organizations. And so, when I got to the Academy, I just kind of felt like, well, this is a path that I have enjoyed in the past, why not give it a shot and go for it? My dad had been the wing commander when he was here as a cadet. And so yeah, there is a legacy. And I just, you know, I learned so much from my parents and this idea of really like stepping up. And if you want to do something, if you want to make a difference, especially if you're going to complain about it, then do something about it. And so, I just I really enjoy the leadership roles. I like the idea of being able to make a difference. I certainly learned a lot along the way. I had role models and mentors here at the Academy that, you know, helped me to kind of evolve and adapt my leadership style while I was here, but I really enjoyed it. I really think it set me on a path of, you know, learning something early in what is a leadership laboratory, you know, learning, not always getting it right. But it kind of set me up for leadership lessons and leadership later in my career as well.

Naviere Walkewicz 14:24

Those are all really fantastic examples of, you know — I think how that evolved and what you learned about yourself in leadership. Would you say that your dream changed to be an astronaut to become an A-10 pilot? Because it was, you know, that was your path? What did that look like when you knew that you weren't going to try to become an astronaut or you were, you know, really inspired by the A-10?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 14:46

You know, it's interesting because I think we set goals for ourselves. We had these dreams and then sometimes our priorities change over time and letting go of that dream was a little bit hard. If I'm honest, I would still love to do it. I would still love to be an astronaut someday and, you know, there's still a chance. But I found that once I went on to fly the A-10, I just I loved it. I loved the mission, I really found my passion and my purpose supporting our ground troops. And I think part of that was because my entire career flying A-10 was after 9/11. We deployed multiple times to combat, so I really saw where I was making a difference. And I was making a difference and helping our ground troops get home safely. And I didn't want to leave that. I just really felt committed to that role in that job and the responsibility of it. And so … I kind of just took a different path at that point. And sometimes it's hard, you know, to take that path and go off this course that it really had been a dream of mine for so long. But I absolutely love flying.

Naviere Walkewicz 15:46

You had some very unique challenges. And so, I think one that many may be familiar with, but if you're not a listener that knows about this, you know, you had experienced a very challenging time after flying for about 20 years, while you were over Baghdad.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 16:07

Yeah, you know, those life-changing moments that you think really are never going to happen to you. Right? … I think back to being a cadet, right, and just the moments of like, you know, the, you have this goal, you have these dreams, you have this idea of what your life is going to be like. And then for us, you know, 9/11 changed that dramatically. But it gave me the opportunity as an A-10 pilot to go do exactly what I was trained to do, which is close air support and supporting our troops on the ground. And this mission back on April 7, 2003, was no different than any of the other missions in terms of that was what we were going to do, was close air support. At this point, our ground troops had moved all the way to Baghdad, and so we were going to be right there with them. And I think the big difference for us that day was the weather wasn't very good; there were clouds covering Baghdad. And, you know, we actually didn’t think we were going to be able to do anything; we kind of thought we would air refuel and then kind of just wait for a task. And we thought, well, maybe today is not a day where we’re going to be able to help. And then we got a call that there are troops in contact, they were taking fire, they needed immediate assistance. And it’s just that moment of like, we’re going to do everything we can to get in there. And thankfully, we found some holes in the weather and we’re able to get down below the clouds to support the ground troops. But again, it’s everything that we train for, everything that we plan for. It’s till a little bit surreal when you actually see the firefight happening, I remember dropping down below the weather and just seeing like tracers and smoke, and it’s very surreal. And then kind of the reality of OK, we gotta get in there quickly. So, we did a couple of passes of guns and rockets on the enemy location and then pulling off target. My last pass is when I just felt and heard the loud explosion at the back of my airplane and I knew immediately I was hit. I mean, there was no doubt in my mind; I think the jet just nosed over. I remember looking down at Baghdad below and instinctively just pulled back on the control stick and nothing happened. And that’s kind of when I felt like time slowed down a little bit, like I knew that it could go really poorly. And I just fell back on my training, you know, I fell back on everything that I was trained to do — trying to figure out what’s going on in the cockpit, despite lots of things going wrong, lots of flashing lights. And I realized very quickly that my hydraulics were depleted, which meant that I had no control over the airplane at this point. But thankfully, the A-10 is built with backup emergency systems. And I was able to get in our backup emergency system. And then slowly the jet started to climb up and away from Baghdad. And that was kind of that like, that was the moment I’m like, alright, I might actually survive this because there was that period of time where I was like, I could crash like I could have to eject and the thought of ejecting over Baghdad was not a good one. And so just, you know, you think about all these things, and when time slows down, and I was just very thankful that it turned out the way it did. And then I had to get the airplane back to our home base, which is a whole different story of, of spending the longest hour of my life, trying to decide what I was going to do and how it was going to play out.

Naviere Walkewicz 19:20

I think most could never imagine being in that situation. And you talk about moments that matter. So, getting into your book a little bit — “Flying in the Face of Fear,” I had the chance to listen to the audio version of your book, and it was wonderful. I think what’s so powerful about it, as you take these moments in your career throughout your life, where these moments have helped you and thinking about how you navigate leadership, how you just navigate better. What are some of your most favorite parts about the book you wrote that like — what really is one — you chose those different chapters. What are the ones that really — just like, “I must tell this one because this one really spoke to me.”

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 20:06

I think a couple things. I mean, as I was flying back from Baghdad, I remember the stories of the pilots that came before me. I had read about their stories in a book called “Warthog” about A-10 pilots during Desert Storm. And in that hour back, you know, just struggling to kind of get the airplane under control and keep it in control, I remembered the stories of the pilots that came before me. And, sadly, not all of them survived. You know, there were three pilots that attempted to land in manual reversion, which is my backup emergency system that I was in. And I remember their stories, you know, I remembered, you know, the lessons that we learned, even from the fatality that we learned from those pilots. And so, I think that’s what was so important to me is to capture those lessons so that the next generation, you know, will certainly have aviators, but also leaders — it’s this idea of sharing stories, to help others. It’s this idea of sharing your experiences and your lessons learned, even if they're, like, some painful lessons along the way, right? Painful lessons from failure, or mistakes or just tough experiences. To me, that’s what was most important was to share like that true, authentic lesson, to try to just help others and maybe give people a little bit of a different perspective. That was what really drove me to write the book and what was so important for me to share.

Naviere Walkewicz 21:31

That’s powerful. I think one of the things that, you know, when listeners or readers were going through that, they might say, “How does this apply to me?” You know, “I’m, I’m not a pilot, I’m not over a warzone.” You know, “How, how do I relate this to me?” And I think what you did really artfully was just the lessons you told a story through your lens, but you really made it relatable in so many different levels. Sometimes we’ll have listeners or readers ask about, “How do you balance life?” You have this profession and you have a family, you’re a mom? How did you do that? And do you call it balance? Or do you call it just regular, you know, balls in the air?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 22:13

Sometimes I look back, I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, I don't know how we did this.” I mean, my husband was also active duty, we he spent 25 years and I spent 24 years and we were both A-10 pilots, we had kids, we did wait later in life to have kids pretty much because we were deployed nonstop in the first part of our careers. But sometimes I look back and I'm like, I have no idea how we did it. But I do know, I mean, we were really true partners and the journey, we — I guess the blessing of having a life-changing experience very early in your career and very early in your marriage is it gives you an opportunity to talk about the things that are really important and that really matter. And I think that's one thing that my husband and I did after that mission was really put life in perspective — when you think there are times when you may not survive. And so, we really sat down and just talked through what was important to us. And we didn't have kids at the time when that happened. And we just realized that family was important to us; having kids at some point was important to us. And I do I think the word balance I'm OK with it. I do, you know — I know there's lots of other words that people like you know, work-life harmony, work-life integration, work-life balance. For me, what I realized is that I initially put so much pressure on myself to be, like, this mom, a fighter pilot, a leader — like trying to do all of these things. And what I recognize is that balance comes for me anyway, it was over time. Like if I tried to have this perfect balance every day, like, first off, it was not achievable in my world. But I realized, for me, it was, like, overtime, like, if … I had one day where I was going to stay late at work, there was a lot going on, my airmen needed me — then I would try the next day or you know, few days later to just really make sure that I spent more time with my kids or maybe left early to spend time with my kids. Whatever it was, I just tried to find long-term balance and, you know, that's hard when you deploy for six months and then you know, … sometimes that balance comes over months or over a year. But I think that helped me also give myself some grace that it's not always gonna go exactly as we plan and some days are better than others. But I'm doing the best I can, you know? … I keep working on it. And I think it's just one thing that we were pretty hard on ourselves because we want to be able to do it all and sometimes we just need to give ourselves a little bit of grace.

Naviere Walkewicz 24:35

Do you think that being hard on ourselves is normal to a leader or do you think that's just different personalities?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 24:45

I don't know. When I look back at my life, even as a young girl, like, I've always been pretty hard on myself and I always think when people say, “What's the one piece of advice you would give to your younger self?” it would be, “Don't be so hard on yourself.” I think it’s probably just an very natural reaction. But I think, you know, sometimes we have this view of how we want things to turn out. And the truth is like, “You're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna fail.” I had this idea of perfection, and I realized: First off, it's just not possible you can work to achieve it and, and want to, you know, consistently try to improve and get better. But I think also, again, just not to be so hard on yourself, because it is going to, you know, there, there's going to be this path of ups and downs and challenges. And the reality is that it is painful at the time, but we come out stronger, like I look at some of the worst experiences, like just in terms of struggles, and the worst, you know, the hardest things I guess I've done is probably a better word. And truly, those made me stronger and a better person. You just don't see it in the moment. And that's the hard thing, you know, and so it's not being so hard on ourselves, because it's going to happen. But the truth is, how you respond is what really matters the most.

Naviere Walkewicz 25:58

We talk about leadership, and I think, you know, response to leadership is one piece of it for sure. What about do you think leaders are born? Or are they made? Do you think that part of your leadership was an evolution? Or do you think people already just come with those natural talents?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 26:14

I mean, I think you may have some natural talents. But I think any leader that isn't working to be better and trying to develop themselves along the way is probably going to hit an endpoint. At some point, you know — I look back and my final job in the Air Force was here at the Academy as the director for the Center for Character and Leadership Development. And I learned so much about myself in that year, I learned so much from this amazing team that works there, who are all experts in leadership and leadership development. And I love that that came in the final point of my career, you know, and I just feel like you, we have to constantly learn to improve and adapt. And my leadership style when I first started out was very different than, you know, when I finished my career And I think it's because I was learning, I was figuring out what works, I was making mistakes, and thankfully, having people, you know, share their feedback with me. So, I absolutely think that it requires work. Leadership requires work. It's, you know, it's not easy. There are challenges, there are things to learn, things adapt, your team is different. It’s just constantly one of those things that professional development, for me is something that should continue throughout your career, throughout your life, always looking for new ways. And learning from your team as well. Like right now, I learned a lot from my kids. But I've learned a tremendous amount from the airmen that have worked for me as well. And that's just, it's rewarding, but I think it's one of those things that just helps us to continue to learn and grow.

Naviere Walkewicz 27:44

I was actually going to ask you, you know, what does learning as a leader look like? And you really touched on that. Because, I think a lot of listeners are looking for those nuggets, or “How do I get better as a leader?” So, it's not necessarily just professional development. That's part of it, certainly, but it's also looking at others, learning from others. … What would you say are some of those lessons or traits that you picked up from others that you adopted into your leadership style?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 28:08

I think the biggest thing for me, as I look back and had some reflection time on this is, you know, I think when I started out, I had this idea that leadership was like — put on this tough exterior, like, have the answers, like, be strong and credible and capable. And I do think credibility is important. But I've also learned that that human connection, and really, just be authentic and true to who you are. But really connect with people on a human level like that, for me is night and day from, you know — I knew that I needed to get to know my airman like that was, you know, that made sense. But I think, really, truly connecting with people and taking the time to learn from them, like walking around and just getting to know your team on a very human level. Like meeting with them on a personal level also, like getting to know them and then their families. You know, obviously there's limits to this based on your position and your role. But I think just connecting with people and finding out where they struggle, you know, where do they add value? What do they bring to the organization? Letting them teach you what they do — I've had a few leadership roles where, you know, I'm not the expert, you know? I don't have the same background that everyone does. And I just really learned to learn from my team — whether it was driving a front loader with my civil engineers; suiting up in a fire suit and go into the burn house with my firefighters — those were moments that I just, there's some of my favorite moments is taking the time to really connect and get to know people and it builds trust. I did not start out that way. But to me, that was the most important thing that I learned and I learned it from my airmen.

Naviere Walkewicz 29:45

There was a story you shared in your book about when you took command and it can get really tough. And I think it really talks about the connection piece. Was it your son…?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 29:57

Yeah, he's 15 now. Yeah, he, you know, kids have a mind of their own. And he did at my change-of-command ceremony first, this was for squadron command. And he decided in the middle of the ceremony to just get up and come up on stage and sit in my lap. And I was, you know — there's that part of me that is just was so worried about what my team was thinking, you know, like, obviously not proper military protocol. I was trying to figure out how I was going to do the rest of the ceremony with my son up on stage with me. But I think, in that moment, like, I just remember looking down at my son, and even though my mind is racing, because I'm so worried about what people are thinking, that I look at him, and I'm like, You know what, this is me, right? Like, I'm a mom; that's just part of who I am. Yes, I am going to be a commander of 150 people. And sometimes I can't control my 3-year-old son. Like, that's just reality. But it put this perspective of like, letting people in a little bit to see me for who I was, you know, yes, I'm a mom, I'm a fighter pilot, I'm wife, I'm a leader. Like, here I am, you know, these, I'm all of these things. And at that, really that one moment, like, in the days after, when I spent time just walking to the different locations and meeting my team, like, that's the thing that came up was my son on my lap. I mean, that was the highlight for everyone. And so, it was this idea that my young airmen, you know, they taught me a lesson that day to like — we earn trust when we, like, create those connections and open ourselves up to have a little bit of vulnerability. So yeah, my 3-year-old kind of opened my eyes to just letting people in and letting people see who for who you are.

Naviere Walkewicz 31:39

Well, that is certainly one way that your family, your 3-year-old at the time, influenced you as a leader. How else would you say — I know you said your dad is a grad. Your mom probably played a strong role in your leadership throughout the years, and your husband being in the military as well. Talk about your family's influence on you as a leader.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 31:58

I think it all really started out growing up. My mom was an oncology nurse and she really, you know — she taught me a lot about that compassionate side, but also very credible and capable as an oncology nurse. And my dad, really from the moment that he decided that he was going to let me into his world of what going to the Air Force Academy … instilled in me this idea that if you want something, you're going to have to work for it. And you're, you know — it's not going to be easy. I remember, I did a lot of sports, like cross country and soccer. And so, my upper body strength wasn't great going into my application for the Academy.

Naviere Walkewicz 32:37

And so you're gonna talk about the pull up?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 32:40

I couldn't do any. And my dad was like, "Well, if you're gonna go to the Academy…” and I think this was still a little testing, like, “Do you really want this? Are you really willing to put in the work?” He said, “All right, we’ll install a pull up bar in the bathroom. And every time you go in and out, you can do a pull up.” And I did. And that meant that by the time I got to the Academy, I could max the pull ups. It but it was, it's, you know — it's that little early lesson of like, “If you want something you got to put in the work.” And, you know, that stayed with me. I mean, obviously, throughout my career, throughout my life, it's things that I talked to my kids about now. You know, you can have goals, and you can have dreams, but you have to put in the work. So, they absolutely, like they've been my role models, my heroes, my mentors. They still are, you know? Now they thankfully live close by; I get to see them more. But yeah, they've actually, you know, they've really been tremendous in my life. And, you know, I rely on them for their advice and mentorship. So, that's been really powerful. And then, you know, having a husband who was also a colonel, also a commander, to have somebody in your life you can bounce ideas off of who will have your back and give you honest feedback, right? Like, you know, we're very honest with each other. And we'll give each other feedback. And so that's really important. You know, it's that wingman support of somebody who is always there, that has your back, that's looking out for you, will support you, but will also push you to be at your best and, and who has been a true partner ... So, yeah, family is really important to me, I think it can make a tremendous difference in our lives, and my kids now teach me a lot of things as well — patience being one of them.

Naviere Walkewicz 34:23

Being out of the uniform now, you know, what are some things that you're doing to continue to develop yourself as a leader?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 34:32

I think it's continuing to push myself outside my comfort zone. You know, I retired a few years ago, and that was a hard transition. You know, I miss the people I miss the camaraderie I miss that sense of commitment to service. And I realized that there's so many ways you can serve outside of the military as well. And for me, I realized part of it being in the Center for Character and Leadership Development, how passionate I was about inspiring others. and helping other leaders, whether they're brand-new leaders, or maybe even very experienced leaders look at something from a different perspective or to continue to push themselves out of their comfort zone because we can get comfortable in the way we've been doing things. And so, I just realized that that's something I'm passionate about. And so I've realized, I'm maybe I'm not serving in uniform anymore, but I'm trying to give back in a way, and I love the opportunity to mentor our next generation of cadets. But I also love the opportunity to travel to talk to different teams and organizations from the public and private sector to talk about leadership and talk about overcoming hard things and putting in the work. And that's been a lot of fun and very rewarding.

Naviere Walkewicz 35:44

I can imagine that journey of developing yourself even outside of uniform, you know, as a, as a leader, you talk about pushing yourself outside your comfort zone. Can you share a time maybe where you've been doing that and you failed, and what that looked like, and how you picked yourself up or a time when you really saw some benefit from pushing yourself out of the comfort zone?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 36:05

I can talk to both. I think anytime you try something new, that feels a little bit scary, like, it just feels daunting. And I think even just for me, if I look back, probably earliest in my career, just being one of the only women going into a fighter squadron — that felt very outside of my comfort zone. I mean, yes, I had gone through pilot training. And I had gone through the training… but it felt very nerve-wracking to go into a fighter squadron. For the first time. I mean, the, one of the biggest failures I had was my final checkride and pilot training. And that was a moment where, you know, I had done so well, up to that point, minus some early bouts of air sickness, which is a totally different story, I might have read just when you think you have this whole thing planned out. But my final ride and pilot training was my formation ride — I had put myself out there as wanting to fly fighters at that point, we had made our dream sheet of fly the A-10. Like, I felt like I had done so well up to that point and really put in the work. And then I really struggled with my final formation checkride. And again, sometimes those moments that are so hard and such a struggle are also the moments where you learn the most. And I had made some mistakes in the ride and the flying and the formation, and I didn't let them go. Like, I just kept focusing on the mistakes. And I performed terribly on the ride. And, you know, thankfully, my instructor gave me some honest feedback and was like, “Kim, you're a good pilot, but that was a terrible ride.” But I think that one ride really reinforced to me this idea of when you make a mistake, like, let it go. Like, you can't focus on it, you just learn the lesson and don't do it again, but let it go. So, I think you know, that was one of those ones where, you know, it certainly didn't go so well. But I think it really made me stronger, and a better pilot and a better leader, and I’m thankful that I learned that early in my career. I will tell you, on the positive side of getting outside my comfort zone — like, I never thought I was going to be an author and I never it wasn't on my dream list. It wasn't a goal that I had set my for myself. And I joked to my husband a few times, like I wrote the book, but then was going to have the courage to publish it because it felt very vulnerable. It felt very vulnerable to put myself out there and to share some of the stories and, you know — the good stories are one thing, but the mistakes, the failures, you know, the things that didn't go as well, it felt very vulnerable. And, you know, he always laughed, he's like, “Of course you are.” You have to take your own advice, you know, even when you're scared, you do it anyway. And so, pushing myself outside my comfort zone to publish the book and put it out there. And now to get the feedback from people of how important it is to hear the not just the good, but the bad, right, the struggles, the challenges, and to know that, yes, you can have this amazing résumé and done some amazing things and how to have a great career. But what are the things behind that? And I think that's sometimes what we miss. And so, I'm thankful for the opportunity. And it's been a reminder to me that even when it feels uncomfortable, that we have to go for it, you know, to put ourselves out there and give it a shot. And, you know, this has been incredibly rewarding.

Naviere Walkewicz 39:20

Well, I have to say, you know, it's funny that we've only just met in person for the first time today when we hugged and said hello, because I feel like I've known you — I mean, aside from reading the book. I remember going on LinkedIn when you got the box of your shipment. And I just remember being in that moment with you — I think you were so emotional about opening up the box and seeing your book and holding it in your hand, like this was a special moment. … So, I think you know your leadership. The way you inspire people has transcended, you know, different social mediums and also just people that you never even met. So, I thank you for that moment because, yeah, I mean, that really inspired me as well.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 40:01

I think it was also, you know, seeing the book for the first time, but also like, “Oh yeah, like, now it’s in print, there’s no turning back now.” But yeah, you know, even pilots and guys that I flew with were like, “We thought we knew pretty well, but, like, we had no idea that the some of these things were going on or that, you know, these were some of the things that you were feeling.” And just, I appreciate that, you know, that they recognize that. But there's sometimes that there's a lot more going on with people that we don't recognize. And so, you know, putting yourself out there is a little scary. But it is, like I said — it's just been such an honor to be able to connect with people and for them to share their stories with me, and to know that in some way I can help make a difference on their journey.

Naviere Walkewicz 40:46

Well, for those listeners that are looking for nuggets, and how to get to know people better when you just said that, you know, we thought we knew you, we didn't know you were handled all those things going on, how would you share with leaders that they might do that better for people that work for them? Their colleagues? What does that look like if they're not reading a book?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 41:06

I think it means, you know, we often say, "Well, I have an open-door policy."
I think it's more than that — it is getting out of your office, getting away from the computer, and walking around and really talking to people and just taking those small moments with people as individuals, as humans, and really getting to know them. And, you know, again, it's all about, like, “Let them teach you something; you don't know everything.” You know, how can you learn more? How can you continue to develop and grow? What can you share with them that you learned on your own journey? Yes, you can do that in large groups, but sometimes that one on one, like, hey, I've been there, I know what you're feeling. I struggle there too. This is where I failed. You know, those little moments are really important. And it lets your team see you as human to Right. Like you're not perfect, you don't have all the answers, you have your own challenges. I think that is truly important that human level connection really is important. Yes, you should be credible, you should be capable. You have to put in the work, but that humility and approachability is also so important.

Naviere Walkewicz 42:07

What are the one or two key lessons in leadership that you'd really love to share with our listeners? Like, what do you want them to take away?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 42:14

Yeah. I think one of the things that really sticks out to me — and it's something that we learned as cadets as well — is the idea of having a wingman by your side personally, professionally, — someone that will have your back, someone that will support you. I think it has been so critical throughout my life; I think at that moment over Baghdad, when everything was going wrong, I mean, just everything was going wrong. And all I said over the radio was, "two got hit, two got hit." That was it. And immediately my wingman stepped in. He, you know, immediately provided me guidance and support when I needed it most. And you know, when the adrenaline is pumping, we're feeling overwhelmed, like that wingman can step in and help us to see the bigger picture and make the best possible decision. And I think that mutual support, like, yes, it's that moment over Baghdad of having that mutual support. But I think back to as a cadet, right, like, the moments of struggle through basic training, or recognition, or just academics, whatever it was, like, having people that you could count on to be your support network was huge. And even, you know, as a leader at, you know, as a colonel, as a leader, as a commander all these different times, I wasn't alone. I had, you know, a team, I had chiefs that were just incredible, who had shut the door and given me honest feedback. But who would also support me, and I think that is just so critical to have somebody by your side. And again, it's personal. It's professional. I mean, my husband has been my wingman. I think it's just a reminder that we don't have to do hard times alone, that we can have a wingman by our side that we can count on.

Naviere Walkewicz 43:47

That is a fantastic lesson. Well, there's always the possibility that when our listeners, you know, review this and we go back through the, through our time together, they'll be things that they would wish they'd wish we talked about. Yeah. So how can they get a hold of you? You know, what does that look like?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 44:04

Well, first off, I would love for people to reach out if there's a question or something that someone wanted to ask or, you know, that we didn't cover. I think it's important that people reach out and ask the question, I love to connect with people. The easiest way to get in touch with me is probably through my website because it has links to all the social media channels, and my email. So, the website is kim-kc-campbell.com. And again, it has links to LinkedIn and Instagram and Twitter and all the different locations that you could find. It also has links to my book if people are interested in the book. It's available Amazon Barnes and Noble, your favorite local bookseller wherever you would like to purchase the book. And like you said, it's available in an audio version. It's available in hardcopy, but yeah, please reach out. I'm open to feedback as well. I love when people share some thoughts about the book and thoughts about the podcast. It would be great to connect.

Naviere Walkewicz 45:01

Well, I'd be remiss if we didn't end with just the quick story of how KC came to be. Like, can you just share with our listeners how you got that call-sign?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 45:10

Yeah, the KC part, right? So everybody thinks it's my initials, because that's the easy button. But it's every fighter pilot has a callsign. And I got mine after being designated combat mission ready in the A-10. And we're not in the room when they tell stories about us from our experience, but I was the only female fighter pilot and our A-10 Squadron. And so, I came back into the room, lots of tears, lots of excitement, and they said, “Your new callsign is KC.” And I was like, well, that's kind of lame. I didn't say that out loud. Because it's my initials. And they said, it stands for “Killer Chick.” And I was like, “All right, well, that's fitting.” You're like, “I can handle that.”

Naviere Walkewicz 45:46

Well, this was wonderful, Kim. Can you remind listeners one more time the name of your book just so in case you missed it?

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 45:53

Yes. “Flying in the Face of Fear: A Fighter Pilot’s Lessons on Leading with Courage.”

Naviere Walkewicz 45:58

Thank you so much for your time today.

Col. (Ret.) Kim "KC" Campbell 46:00

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

KEYWORDS

Air Force Academy, moment, cadets, learned, Baghdad, pilot, leadership, felt, listeners, Academy, book, work, leader, lessons, important, people, talk, callsign, life, stories

The Long Blue Line Podcast Network is presented by the U.S. Air Force Academy Association and Foundation