Ep. 44 - Erica Komisar: The Maternal Instinct, Attachment, Rethinking Daycare, & Feminism

Human Nature with Roni Fouks

In today's episode, I spoke with Erica Komisar about her best-selling book 'Being There: Why Prioritizing Motherhood in the First Three Years Matters'. We started with a quick mention of Erica's recent speech at the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship (ARC) Conference organized by Jordan Peterson, where she spoke about the importance of a mother's love, presence, and emotional attunement in the first three years of a child's life.

Erica brought us into her world of attachment, child development, and psychoanalysis, and she explained why the maternal instinct is not 'a ploy devised by the patriarchy to keep women at home' - rather it is an ancient, in-built biological system, common to all mammals. Human babies are born especially vulnerable compared to other mammals, and they rely on their mother for moment-to-moment emotion regulation. Erica explained how the early attachment relationship between mother and baby affects that child's future attachment security, emotional resilience, and social skills.

We spoke about the negative consequences that daycare can have on children's mental and physical health, and why we need to rethink the way we look at daycare - in terms of the length of time a child spends each day in daycare and the age at which they begin. For example, children who went to daycare were shown to have elevated levels of salivary cortisol, a biomarker for stress, that's correlated with the development of diseases of inflammation later on. Erica explains how a toddler's aggressive behavior or constant acting out is often their fight-or-flight response to the overwhelming stress of being disconnected from their mothers for extended periods of time.

We discussed the difficulties of postpartum depression, how it is often related to a woman being emotionally disconnected and uninterested in her baby, and why so many women are suffering from postpartum depression these days.

We also gave a shout out to dads, highlighting the tremendous role that a father has in his child's development. We spoke about how mothers and fathers parent differently, why these differences are important, and why both roles are necessary. For instance - fathers are especially important for regulating a child's aggression, enforcing boundaries, and facilitating the child's gradual separation from the mother through rough-and-tumble play.

Lastly, we spoke about the important achievements of second wave feminism - and where we each thought the movement went wrong. We discussed the paradox of a feminist movement that fought for women's right to be just like men - while devaluing femininity as such. Erica and I hope to see the pendulum swing back into a more balanced direction! One where women can have it all, just in different ways at different times.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the topics we raised today - did you agree or disagree? Do you have any questions for Erica that you'd like us to explore in a future episode? Share your thoughts in the comments below 💬

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Erica Komisar is a licensed clinical social worker, psychoanalyst, and author of two best-selling developmental psychology books.

Check out her books below:

📚 Being There: Why Prioritizing Motherhood in the First Three Years Matters

📚 Chicken Little the Sky Isn't Falling: Raising Resilient Adolescents in the New Age of Anxiety

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00:00 Intro & Erica's ARC Conference Speech

5:00 Why Babies Need Their Mothers

14:30 Why Feminists Think the 'Maternal Instinct' is an Invention of the Patriarchy

18:12 When Mom Isn't There: Stress, Insecure Attachment, & Emotional Dysregulation

24:26 How Do I Know if Daycare is Negatively Affecting My Child?

28:01 A Toddler's Aggressive Behavior is a Fight or Flight Response

30:10 Do Children Need Daycare for the Socialization?

32:40 Genetics x Environment: Emotional Sensitivity Can Turn into Mental Illness

36:47 Causes of Postpartum Depression & Why It Takes a Village to Care for a Mother

45:02 Developing a Career Alongside Motherhood

50:30 The Important Role of Fathers

57:40 Where Feminism Went Wrong: Why Feminists are Against Motherhood

1:02:27 Should Everyone Have Children? How To Prepare for Motherhood

1:06:43 Where to Find More of Erica's Work

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