Life Lessons From a Decade of Therapy

Jo & JJ Go Mental

This week, we are joined by the extremely wise and generous Olivia Hoffman, who has worked with J.J. for more than a decade, is now her sidekick on their Throw Up Thursday shows on Instagram, and a member of the Unorthodocs collective. Olivia talks about her experience of therapy as a teenager, as well as the generational shift in attitude regarding mental health. Olivia shares advice for some older folks, and she and J.J. talk about breakthrough moments in their own work together where they could see real growth and healing, even through some stubbornness and resistance.

Takeaway:

[2:47] Olivia has been working with J.J. over a decade, and now the two are having fun hosting Throw Up Thursday together on IG.

[5:21] J.J. kicked Olivia out of a therapy session once. They had been talking about something Olivia had done that was really self-sabotaging and self-harming, and Olivia was going through the session saying “I don’t know, I don't know”. After a certain length of time, J.J. felt that it was her role to push back and challenge Olivia not to continue with the BS. Olivia went away and dug deep, to really see what J.J. was trying to do and the importance of the work they were doing together and came back stronger and fitter than before. Now, so many years of therapy later, Olivia is passionate about helping others benefit from her experience and teaching the tools to many other young adults out there.

[9:31] Olivia opens up about feeling defensive and moving past it because she knew that what she was getting from her work with J.J. was well worth it. We discuss what makes it easier for a younger generation to talk about mental health and their emotions than for our’s (Jo and J.J.’s), who were taught to just suck it up and stop complaining. There are many possible reasons for this, including societal shifts and role models, and it may also be easier for younger people to adapt to mental and emotional shifts because they haven’t created such strong neural pathways around their beliefs, as compared to older people who have built up resilience.

[12:20] It is extremely important for Olivia to get her message out and help other people. Anytime she feels burnt out or has hit a roadblock, she imagines herself helping one more child and it’s definitely worth it.

[14:20] When we are driven by our purpose we are better able to push fear to the side and keep going.

[16:25] The new generations are letting out their emotions, almost to the extreme. Social media makes anyone able to say whatever is on their mind at the moment, but that can come with consequences if not handled correctly.

[19:39] Joanna shares how her experience with burnout not only was tough for her personally but her work colleagues and bosses not knowing how to act around her made it even worse. One of the researchers into burnout makes an analogy to the canary in the mine. When the canary enters the mine, it is full of song and very healthy — when it falls off the perch, you can’t blame the canary for being down in the mine, you can blame the toxic fumes and gas in the mine for making the canary sick. Similarly, burnout is an indicator of a toxic environment in the workplace. Leaders must look at their teams and see if new hires are experiencing burnout due to dysfunction in the organization itself.

[23:35] J.J. is amazed by all the skilled young people she sees in her practice and is thrilled when someone like Olivia comes out and shares their story with the world.

[24:51] You don’t have to agree with someone to validate their emotions, and you also don’t have to allow much whining after you validate their feelings. In DBT, a statement validating someone’s feelings could sound like, “I understand this is hard, and you can do hard things.” Validating statements are incredibly important. They allow us to validate the stuff that we feel, and this helps in our self-esteem. However, all too often people use similar statements as a means to manipulate others into doing what they want. This is very different from what we are talking about here, and you can feel the difference in intent. The structure of the sentence is also important — and it’s key to note that we avoid the word “but”. “But” is a powerful word that goes to negate everything that has come before, and used badly will crush the spirit. In this context, we also talk about how (i) we validate the emotion, (ii) we don’t validate the thoughts, and then (iii) we look to move forward into problem-solving. Traditional psychotherapy might see the therapist let you sit and complain — and this is not going to help you move forward into problem-solving. It is rather enabling and toxic — and it is important to note that if you are turning up for therapy you are turning up to get help to move forward.

[37:55] If you have purpose and you are focused, the fear just falls away.

[41:00] Olivia’s advice to the people in their 40’s and above — Listen. Actually listen to the way you hear things, and how you react, then sit with it and trust that more will be revealed.

Tweetables:

• “It’s really scary to challenge the things you have believed all your life.” - Olivia
• “Anybody that wants to, can change.” - J.J.
• “My strength is when I’m helping other people” - Olivia
• “My head exploded trying to think about which came first, the emotions or the thoughts.” - Joanna
• “I went to a psychologist who sat in the corner for the first three sessions and didn’t say a word. On top of that, it was in French.” - Joanna
• “ Having a purpose takes care of a lot of the fear of change.” - J.J.

Connect With Us:

Joanna Denton | Dr. JJ Kelly

Resources

Throw Up Thursday - Every Thursday at 4 pm PST on J.J.’s Instagram: @drjjkelly